14 replies to this topic

[db_sampson]

I've been having an issue for a couple of weeks now that's starting to drive me crazy.. The car is a 95 liberty with complete legacy TT swap done years ago..

 

The car will seemingly randomly choose not to start, will not get even a click from the starter motor, the lights on the dash dull when I hit the key but nothing happens.. Have had the alternator replaced with a brand new unit because the auto electrician I took it to thought that was my problem, was good for a few days, now it's back to playing up.. Attempted to hot wire it using direct power from the battery to the smaller terminal on the starter today and that also did nothing.. It will also clutch start fine..

 

At a massive loss here as I can't for the life of me work this out, will be pulling the starter out tomorrow and trying to test that..

 

Any help or suggestions (before I burn it) would be hugely helpful..

[levy-92]

sounds like starter tbh

check battery also

fuse for starter 

[db_sampson]

sounds like starter tbh

check battery also

fuse for starter 

 

that's the way I'm leaning as well, though being twin turbo it's in a pain of a spot..

 

Battery appears fine, trying to jump start it of my other car results in nothing as well..

 

Any idea where the starter fuse/relay would be, that was my first thought but couldn't find anything labelled as such..

[allpaw4]

Sounds like the starter motor to me also - is it intermittant or all the time? If its not all the time, get the starter motor tested, I'd almost guarantee its dropped a winding in the motor somewhere. This will mean that when it stops spinning at one of its normal spots (DC electric motors usually stop in a couple of spots rather than just free spinning to any spot), it will spin up again if its on a good winding, or if it falls on the spot where the winding is buggered, it wont flux up to start the spin and will just stay stationary. Its a reasonably common problem of DC electric motors (although, common in the sense of if it fails, this is a likely way for it to fail - not that electric motors fail like this all the time)

 

Fuse box under the bonnet will be where the fusible link for the starter will be. It won't be a normal blade fuse for starting, although its a good idea to check them all fuses while you're at it.

 

Whip off the IC, and you should be able at least see what you're doing under the bonnet. Dont expect to be able to test for this sort of problem on the car - you'll likely need to take it off the car and either bench test it if you know what you're doing, or drop it to a workshop and ask them to test it for you. If you explain what its doing to them, they should be able to check it out.

 

Careful continually hitting the starter motor with the key if your lights are dimming - it means the starter is pulling lots of current still, and if you continually hold it trying to start it, you'll cook the starter motor.

 

Cheers,

Ben

[db_sampson]

Pretty certain it's the starter motor at this point, as I tested all connections with a multimeter this morning and it's definitely recieving enough power to be able to kick it over..

 

So starter is out after reluctantly pulling off the tmic and bench testing it I wasn't able to get it to move at all..

 

All that's left now is to hunt down a new unit in the morning and hopefully everything goes back to normal..

 

 

Thanks for the help and suggestions guys..

[allpaw4]

Out of curiousity, could it be moved by hand? is it seized? Or is has it dropped a winding like I thought?

[db_sampson]

It can be moved by hand.. I actually managed to get it to spin a couple of times with a good few hits this morning when retesting it to be 100% sure before doing anything else..

 

The starter now at the auto electrician to see if it's possible to have it rebuilt which hopefully be a cheaper option than a brand new one..

[RX25SE]

I always check voltage drop before removing the starter.

 

Between the main supply to the motor (after the solenoid) and the battery posive terminal, you should get less than 0.75v when the engine is cranking.

 

For the solenoid circuit, from solenoid wire (from ign switch) to battery positive should be less than 0.25v.

 

If the voltages are higher, then there is an issue with higher than normal resistance in the circuit such as dirty battery terminals or poor relay contacts.

[db_sampson]

Exactly what I did, tested absolutely everything and anything I could find or that was suggested to me. Unfortunately with no luck..

[allpaw4]

Yep, so it's likely dropped a winding. Second hand starter will work and be fairly cheap. If you can get it to spin by hand, it's definitely just the windings. Maybe get a recon changeover unit? Give them yours and you don't pay as much as a recon one. I've had a starter do exactly that. I found if I rocked the car in gear with the starter engaged, the weight of the car against the gearbox would be enough to roll the starter motor off the bad winding so it would kick in. Had to be quick with the clutch, but it was doable. If you have an auto there was nothing you could do, as you needed to have the car roll against the gear to push the starter motor off the bad spot.

[Grahama]

I had this in an old car - when it stuck, I'd put it into 3rd, push the car 5 to 10cm to turn the engine a little (and starter motor) and then it would start fine off the key.
Now it's happening on my wifes car. Annoying because it's an auto and you can't bump the starter motor. Normally letting it cool down will allow it to start again.
Hope your reco or replacement isn't costly.

[db_sampson]

Yep, so it's likely dropped a winding. Second hand starter will work and be fairly cheap. If you can get it to spin by hand, it's definitely just the windings. Maybe get a recon changeover unit? Give them yours and you don't pay as much as a recon one. I've had a starter do exactly that. I found if I rocked the car in gear with the starter engaged, the weight of the car against the gearbox would be enough to roll the starter motor off the bad winding so it would kick in. Had to be quick with the clutch, but it was doable. If you have an auto there was nothing you could do, as you needed to have the car roll against the gear to push the starter motor off the bad spot.

 

I did think about going second hand but that ups the chances of it possibly doing it again, I'd rather just spend the money and have a little piece of mind about it..

 

The starter wasn't even throwing out with mine or anything so that wouldn't have worked for me.. Definitely a trick worth remembering though..

 

 

I had this in an old car - when it stuck, I'd put it into 3rd, push the car 5 to 10cm to turn the engine a little (and starter motor) and then it would start fine off the key.
Now it's happening on my wifes car. Annoying because it's an auto and you can't bump the starter motor. Normally letting it cool down will allow it to start again.
Hope your reco or replacement isn't costly.

 

 

I'm hoping too, after the $470 I spent on it last monday at another place who were certain it was my alternator playing up, I'm not looking forward to another big bill.. Will hopefully have an idea sometime tomorrow anyway..

[allpaw4]

If it's not throwing out then you have other issues as well as not spinning up.

[db_sampson]

Picked the starter up this morning, it was apparently full of crap and the brushes were fairly well worn so the cleaned it out and replaced them, only ended up costing me $88 thankfully, just wish those guys were the ones I took it to the first time around could've saved a fair bit..

 

Only downside was nearly setting the car on fire by forgetting the earth strap near the starter.. Rookie mistake, haha..

[allpaw4]

Oh, snap, that's a great outcome. Yea, don't forget that one. Kind of important lol.