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Confirming brake upgrade info i have gathered for Gen3 4/2 pots


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#1 Krypton

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 09:17 AM

I have recently gone to a track day and the brakes where bad from the get go. This would also come down to that i had bad pads probably wrong dot brake fluid. But what i do know is after taken out a track ready car, i need a decent upgrade.

 

Looking at going the 4/2 pot set up and from what i have found and have questions about are the following

 

Rotors im looking at DBA T2's

 

4 Pot fronts i need a 295 Rotor, but found 24mm and 25.4 thickness. Not sure on what i need or why the difference?

 

2 Pot rears i need a 290 Rotor, but found 10mm and 18mm thickness. Im guessing that i need an 18mm?

 

Dont know if i need a 170 or 190 hand brake or what i even have atm

 

As ill be doing a few more of these track days i wanted to know if Gc8 wheels would fit (just easy cheap wheels to put some semi slicks on) 

Also what off set should i be looking for with after market wheels.

Attached File  gc8.JPG   106.55KB   17 downloads

 

Either of these brackets fine Flat vs Kartboy 

Attached File  Flat braket.jpg   56.85KB   18 downloads

Attached File  Kartboy braket.JPG   112.59KB   17 downloads

 

If doing some more track im guessing best bet is to get 5.1 Dot Fluid

 

Would i have to upgrade the brake booster or will a support bracket help?

 

Lastly braided lines, do i get them for my car or an 06 wrx that i get the brakes of?

 

Brakes pads are undecided as of yet

 

I know this is still a lot of info to be asking but i did try my best to find as much info as i could. Cheers in advanced and im open for any changes and suggestions. 



#2 RX25SE

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 10:13 AM

Have you considered the 316mm rotor/ 2 pots from a SpecB GenIV?

 

They have a large swept area and the 30mm thick disc.

 

I have tracked my very heavy RB on a reasonably tight circuit and brakes were not an issue.

 

 

 

 

 

I may also be sorting your current setup to the best it can be to establish an accurate baseline.

 

Kinda like driving a 4 cylinder car with a poorly tuned/worn engine and thinking you need a V8.

 

 

As far as the wheel offset goes, unless you plan on changing the geometry of the front end, stick with the std +55.

 

 

 

 

Also, better to change things one thing at a time, rather than all at once so you can get an idea of where the big gains are.


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#3 Krypton

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 12:02 PM

Haven't thought of that, as upgrading brakes is all new to me i'm happy for any suggestions. I thought the 2 pots that went on the 316mm rotors where brembo

 

The reason i thought of a straight 4/2 pot swap is it just seemed best overall for price, understanding of setup and easiest to get a hold of.

 

I think it will be done one at a time, main thing brakes and wheels to fit. Disk's aren't a must just depends on if the set up i get has some already. Same as braided lines can be done later as with the master cylinder i just wanted to know if stock would hold up.

 

Not sure what you mean by...unless you plan on changing the geometry of the front end, stick with the std +55. Sorry it has to be put more simple, but better to ask so i know than just blindly agree haha



#4 zahmad

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 01:19 PM

What he means by that is unless you want to run wider tyres or change your camber specs, stick with the stock +55 offset wheels....

#5 Krypton

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 03:18 PM

Ah awesome so the Gc8's will fit. Wasn't sure if i would have to go to a 17" or not to fit over the back 2 pots

I know there not the best looking wheel, but for a track wheel i just need something cheap to put tiers on that would clear.

 

But i gather if i did go for the 316mm rotor from the gen 4 then i would defiantly need an up size.

 

Cheers guys it helps heaps



#6 Joss

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 04:52 PM

If this is for your outback Krypton, 55 offset are smaller than standard as far as Im aware. 
The stock offset on Outbacks are 48+ so you would be losing a bit and they may rub on the inside of the guards

 

The boys on here who have 2 pot fronts with the 316mm rotors swear by them. 


Anyway, torqued to spec is just the manuals way of saying 'we couldn't get it any tighter, see if you can'.

 


#7 Krypton

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 06:10 PM

Yep this setup is for the outback, the other reason i was also looking at 4 pots was i heard it is a bit harder to boil the brake fluid.(I was not a fan when that happened)

 

A lil more + off set shouldn't be to bad as long as i dont hit the strut (ill have to borrow the Gc8 wheels off my house mates car and check) as im chewing the rubber on the outside lip atm i just wanted to be sure if the wheels would fit over the brakes

Attached File  IMG_2802.2.jpg   62.14KB   12 downloads



#8 RX25SE

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 07:07 PM

What he means by that is unless you want to run wider tyres or change your camber specs, stick with the stock +55 offset wheels....

 

Pretty much.

 

However, as above, outback is +48 so I'd go with that if you can but no biggie if you can't.

 

I'm assuming it's not std height? If it is then it would be wise to get the centre of gravity a lot lower.

 

 

 

 

 

the other reason i was also looking at 4 pots was i heard it is a bit harder to boil the brake fluid.(I was not a fan when that happened)

 

Can't wait to hear the theory on this one.......

 

 

How old was the fluid in your car when you boiled it?

 

 

 

 

 im chewing the rubber on the outside lip atm 

 

Get it aligned with more negative camber. 


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#9 Beckers

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 07:54 PM

So many question to answer.

 

The DBA performance front rotors are 25mm thick, the standard is 24mm.

Have to agree with Jase on the Gen4 GTB/RB front brakes, larger surface area (316mm) + the caliper has more clamping force than the WRX 4 pot type.

But you must use a 17 inch rim at a minimum.

 

I have WRX 4 pots with DBA T3 discs & EBC red pads, They work amazingly well.

I would not bother with the 2 pot upgraded rear brakes, they don't do very much braking & are costly to fit. They use the 18mm thick disc & use the 170mm hand brake.

The 190 mm hand brake is only for the Brembo /R180 set up from an STI. 

 

If you are using 16 inch wheels for the track, the WRX 4 pot is the way to go. Only the 99 / 00 WRX rims clear the for pots, be careful !

 

Neg camber, yes the outback has adjustable type bolts, however on my outback we could only get  about .1 deg neg camber from the standard setup,

I needed the whiteline camber/caster to mountings, now running .7 deg neg camber per side.



#10 alexGT

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 08:12 PM

So many question to answer.

 

The DBA performance front rotors are 25mm thick, the standard is 24mm.

Have to agree with Jase on the Gen4 GTB/RB front brakes, larger surface area (316mm) + the caliper has more clamping force than the WRX 4 pot type.

But you must use a 17 inch rim at a minimum.

 

I have WRX 4 pots with DBA T3 discs & EBC red pads, They work amazingly well.

I would not bother with the 2 pot upgraded rear brakes, they don't do very much braking & are costly to fit. They use the 18mm thick disc & use the 170mm hand brake.

The 190 mm hand brake is only for the Brembo /R180 set up from an STI. 

 

If you are using 16 inch wheels for the track, the WRX 4 pot is the way to go. Only the 99 / 00 WRX rims clear the for pots, be careful !

 

Neg camber, yes the outback has adjustable type bolts, however on my outback we could only get  about .1 deg neg camber from the standard setup,

I needed the whiteline camber/caster to mountings, now running .7 deg neg camber per side.

 

minimum thickness is 23mm though on those rotors so you aren't getting any extra life.

 

this is a non turbo gen 3 outback if i'm not mistaken. 

 

RDA slotted rotors

Super dot 4 fluid

A1RM pads

 

this combo can be used with 4pot or 2pot 316's and will work great. IMO any more than this and you will be wasting money.


MY07 GT spec B

 


#11 Krypton

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 09:22 PM

 

Pretty much.

 

However, as above, outback is +48 so I'd go with that if you can but no biggie if you can't.

 

I'm assuming it's not std height? If it is then it would be wise to get the centre of gravity a lot lower.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can't wait to hear the theory on this one.......

 

 

How old was the fluid in your car when you boiled it?

 

 

 

 

 

Get it aligned with more negative camber. 

 

Nope not standard height, has the bilstiens from my half cut and i took the lift kit out. may look at some sti springs for next part of the project. 

Tried having a look for the no boil 4 pot theory, from memory it was something about being able to displace heat better. Not 100% but if i find it ill put it up.

 

Fluid was only 2 months old but with the crap pads i had on didnt help i had to be on them hard and a lot earlier. So, more use more heat. lot of stuff contributed.

 

And yep might have to look at doing that for sure. Atm it scrubs with 2 passengers in the car. And for the stock liberety bilstien's i havent tried to slam it.

 

So many question to answer.

 

The DBA performance front rotors are 25mm thick, the standard is 24mm.

Have to agree with Jase on the Gen4 GTB/RB front brakes, larger surface area (316mm) + the caliper has more clamping force than the WRX 4 pot type.

But you must use a 17 inch rim at a minimum.

 

I have WRX 4 pots with DBA T3 discs & EBC red pads, They work amazingly well.

I would not bother with the 2 pot upgraded rear brakes, they don't do very much braking & are costly to fit. They use the 18mm thick disc & use the 170mm hand brake.

The 190 mm hand brake is only for the Brembo /R180 set up from an STI. 

 

If you are using 16 inch wheels for the track, the WRX 4 pot is the way to go. Only the 99 / 00 WRX rims clear the for pots, be careful !

 

Neg camber, yes the outback has adjustable type bolts, however on my outback we could only get  about .1 deg neg camber from the standard setup,

I needed the whiteline camber/caster to mountings, now running .7 deg neg camber per side.

 

Well thats good to know im better off staying with the standard brakes on the rear, prob best a least upgrading the pads in there tho.

 

Cheers for the info on the hand brake. And ill make sure im careful when buying the 16s.

 

If i cant get to much out of the stock camber i might look at getting a lower profile tyres so it will not scrub as easy.

 

 

minimum thickness is 23mm though on those rotors so you aren't getting any extra life.

 

this is a non turbo gen 3 outback if i'm not mistaken. 

 

RDA slotted rotors

Super dot 4 fluid

A1RM pads

 

this combo can be used with 4pot or 2pot 316's and will work great. IMO any more than this and you will be wasting money.

 

23mm on witch rotors?

 

And nope i did a twin turbo conversion on it a couple of months back

 

But its good seems to be getting a bit cheaper than i thought.

 

 

 

 

I also find it strange that if there's no point in upgrading the back to 2 pots, they still sell for a furtune? Although i can see it getting to me that it doesn't match front and back. I just found they are a lot easier to get refurb kits, rotors and info on than trying to get a hold of the 316s. 

Has given me heaps of info and more to think about witch is what i was after Cheers



#12 Guest_KONG_*

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 09:29 PM

I'm not that convinced 4 pots are all they are made out to be.

 

 

They let me down recently.  I want bigger & would prefer 316 2 pots TBH.



#13 Barbbachello

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 09:41 PM

I'm not that convinced 4 pots are all they are made out to be.

 

 

They let me down recently.  I want bigger & would prefer 316 2 pots TBH.

I havent had any issues with my 4 pots and theyve seen some decent mountain flogging. Ty has tracked his and apart from cooking the paint off them he hasnt had issues IIRC. That being said the gen 2 is a couple hundred kilos lighter than a gen 3...

Just food for thought


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#14 Krypton

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 09:45 PM

What happened?

 

And its starting to look that way.

 

Well if i start to look for the 316's what am i typing in as in my wagon is a BH the sedan is a BE your wrx's are GDB GC8 so forth whats the 05+ Legacy GT to find these brakes? All im getting is rotors and pads.



#15 Beckers

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 09:49 PM

 

minimum thickness is 23mm though on those rotors so you aren't getting any extra life.

 

 

It will give you 1mm of extra wear.       Fixed

DBA T3  25mm thick, minimum thickness 23mm, Thanks Alex for clearing that up.

Standard spec rotor 24mm thick, min thickness is 22mm.

 

However DBA is 1 mm thicker, so it has more mass & is about to hold more heat.



#16 CRUISN

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 09:56 PM

 whats the 05+ Legacy GT to find these brakes? All im getting is rotors and pads.

 

BP / BL


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#17 alexGT

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Posted 17 March 2015 - 05:47 AM

 

It will give you 1mm of extra wear.

DBA T3  25mm thick

Standard spec rotor 24mm thick

 

no... read closer on DBA site it says minimum thickness is 23mm for the T3/4000 onwards series. common misconception with these rotors.


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#18 alexGT

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Posted 17 March 2015 - 05:52 AM

 

Well thats good to know im better off staying with the standard brakes on the rear, prob best a least upgrading the pads in there tho.

 

Cheers for the info on the hand brake. And ill make sure im careful when buying the 16s.

 

If i cant get to much out of the stock camber i might look at getting a lower profile tyres so it will not scrub as easy.

 

 

23mm on witch rotors?

 

And nope i did a twin turbo conversion on it a couple of months back

 

But its good seems to be getting a bit cheaper than i thought.

 

 

I also find it strange that if there's no point in upgrading the back to 2 pots, they still sell for a furtune? Although i can see it getting to me that it doesn't match front and back. I just found they are a lot easier to get refurb kits, rotors and info on than trying to get a hold of the 316s. 

Has given me heaps of info and more to think about witch is what i was after Cheers

 

because 2pots look 1000x times better than sliding calipers :D

 

liberty.asn always has 316mm fronts for sale (and vented single 290 rears)


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#19 CRUISN

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Posted 17 March 2015 - 06:53 AM

Just browse everywhere. 

 

I just picked up a complete set of '07 Spec B calipers, rotors and pads for $130 off Ebay. :D 


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#20 aekOne

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Posted 17 March 2015 - 07:07 AM

Never had any issues with 4/2 pot combo on the track. In a heat comparison test they were very similar to brembos after a full session. Good pads, discs and fluid are really important

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