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BG5A - Another GT that needs some TLC


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#41 Ordex

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 01:45 PM

Robb: I left the BCS wired in and blocked the vac line from the turbo and left the other line plugged into the air intake. Should I have blocked both lines or done a loop?

 

The ECV has been plumbed as shown in your last diagram (bottom port to line 6, top port to the 2ndry BOV bridge).

 

As mentioned the boost gauge has been tee'ed from the line running from manifold to primary BOV. I guess a reading of 0.4bar/6psi here would equate to wastegate pressure - good to know.

 

When I did the ECU reset I connected BOTH sets of wires under the dash, the black and green sets. I could hear it doing the cycling process, solenoids clicking, fans, etc. I can try doing it again with only the green set connected if you think that is different to what I did? I'll give it a go tonight.

 

Incidentally I visited the black shark on the weekend (think that's what it was called). Awesome car!



#42 Robbks

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 04:16 PM

All of the  connections sound fine to me

If you now remove the line to the wastegate all together, can you get more than 12-13psi on the primary.
BE CAREFUL, you have no boost control apart from your right foot.
but it's a good test to see if it can actually make boost.

The SHark was a decent example when I'd finished with it.
Sad that it ended up face first in a culvert a few weeks later

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#43 Ordex

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Posted 10 May 2016 - 08:02 PM

Gave it a go tonight.

 

Blocked the line from the compressor outlet.

Blocked the line to the BCS (left it wired in).

Left the line to the waste gate open to atmosphere (figured it would do nothing?)

Couldn't get more than 0 on the boost gauge revving up to about 4000. Wasn't keen to go any higher on suburban streets and clearly should have had boost at this range.

 

Haven't tried Jimbo's other suggestions yet.



#44 Robbks

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Posted 11 May 2016 - 09:58 AM

Something is amiss if you can't make +ve boost

you don;t need to rev it to make boost,
just put it in 2nd or 3rd gear doing 50km/h do and push the loud pedal.
should make 15psi by 3000rpm easily.

do the sensor check while idling and you should see the ECV and ICV actuators moving.
 



#45 Ordex

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Posted 11 May 2016 - 09:20 PM

ahhh figured it out, I need a garage or somewhere to work in winter that has decent lighting!

I did the sensor check and could see the ECV and ICV were not moving - hint 1. I could also hear a quiet hissing noise - hint 2! I took a close look at the BBOD connections and immediately found line 12 unplugged, but sitting right next to the BBOD connection. I unplugged it the other night during the boost gauge install as I was going to tee in here but thought better of and changed to a different source. I'd like to think this was easy to miss in the dark. :blush:

 

Maybe someone could confirm, but could it be things continued to work for a time while there was still vacuum in the vac. tank?

 

Anyway, I got 0.4ish bar on primary and maybe 0.2 or 0.3 on secondary. I'll give it a run at again when it isn't pelting with rain without the BCS in the mix to see how it goes on wastegate, or even have a go with nothing hooked up. TBH though I'm happy enough now to start troubleshooting why it's drinking lots of coolant lol



#46 Robbks

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Posted 12 May 2016 - 04:52 PM

Yep,
your line 12 connects to the manifold as a -ve pressure source for the ICV, ECV and to top up the vacuum tank.
WIthout it connected the tank will eventually run out of vacuum, the ICV will open and it'll makes no boost.
Code 66 is the result as the ECU is expecting boost.

When they're drinking coolant, it's normally going out the exhaust from stuffed head-gaskets



#47 Ordex

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Posted 15 May 2016 - 03:11 PM

Curiosity got the better of me so I gave it a run with no lines to the wastegate at all (blocked off BCS and blocked off compressor outlet nipple).

With careful application of the throttle the highest boost reading I saw was about 0.8 bar. At this point I didn’t really want to keep pushing to try get higher. Previously the most I ever saw was wastegate pressure (0.4 bar), so this is twice as much.

The car certainly had a lot more go!!!

 

So does this experiment suggest the stock BCS is not bleeding off any/enough pressure so the wastegate just sees what is at the compressor outlet, hence I can only ever make wastegate pressure and no more? Do the stock BCS tend to get stuck closed over time or fail?

 

On the coolant issue, I’ve seen coolant in the vicinity of the bottom centre timing belt cover, so I suspect maybe the water pump. It could be the original pump for all I know. I’ve heard they leak coolant past the seals when they’re on the way out. I need to jack up the car when the weather is better and take a close look at everything.

 

As for a head gasket I did a compression test not long after I got the car. I think the numbers are ok and no cause to think the rings or head gaskets are dead.

1 (driver front) - 1st crank 80psi, max 170psi

3 (driver rear) - 1st crank 80 psi, max 168psi

2 (passenger front) - 1st crank 60 psi, max 173 psi

4 (passenger rear) - 1st crank 85 psi, max 171 psi

Not sure how useful the 1st crank value is as I don't know where in the stroke the engine started from. The main thing I read was the max values should all be within 10psi of each other. Be interested to know what you guys think. I took video of everything if anyone is interested.



#48 Jimbo

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Posted 15 May 2016 - 05:49 PM

Numbers seem okay with the comp test. You might just have a coolant leak somewhere.

At this stage, I think it would be reasonable to say the stock BCS has had it. Spend $50 and get yourself a manual bleed valve, set your boost to the disired level and go for gold. I think Robs setup deleted the stock system and he ran a bleed valve.

More stable/predictable boost and probably a bit safer in your application.

Sounds like you're nearly there mate, don't give up yet!


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#49 Robbks

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Posted 16 May 2016 - 09:40 AM

I ran a bleed valve for quite some time while i was modifying the system and getting the issues sorted.
I then ran a Greddy Profec E01 Electronic controller.
It had a huge amount of options, fully programmable boost vs RPM, gear dependent boost settings, warnings, limiters, scramble functions.

to properly test what boost you're making you need to be in 3rd or 4th gear to be able to load up the engine properly.

If you can't make huge boost easily, you've got furthr issues with the ECV or ICV being open and bleeding off exhaust or intake pressure somewhere



#50 Ordex

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Posted 16 May 2016 - 09:17 PM

Ok gave it another crack tonight and was less timid with the throttle! Did a few runs on a good stretch of highway up a hill where I could hold foot to the floor in 3rd and 4th, and only let off when I felt boost drop off as I presume the ECV opened.

In 3rd the most I saw was 0.85 bar (12 psi) and in 4th it held pretty steady at 0.9 bar (13 psi). Never saw anything higher, or had any boost spikes.

Even accounting for the fact my gauge is plumbed to the BOV line 0.9 bar doesn't sound like it qualifies as huge boost?

 

On one run I kept going a bit past the VOD stage (maybe 5500 rpm?) - there was a big dip down to about 0.2 bar/ 3psi, but after I never really saw boost levels come back anywhere near the primary only levels (like less than 0.5 bar).

 

When I got back I put the ECU into solenoid check mode (green/black wires connected) and both ECV and ICV appear to be operating, opening and closing and the BBOD making clicking/pneumatic noises as they do. So the actuators at least work fine.

 

At this stage I really should be giving more attention to the coolant loss issue, but progress on this issue has been encouraging with the help of you guys! :P



#51 Ordex

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Posted 16 May 2016 - 09:35 PM

Also I know it's been said the stock BCS is weak, etc. however during the ECU solenoid check mode I tried blowing through it and could feel it opening/closing, so I think maybe it is working as well as it should.



#52 Robbks

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Posted 17 May 2016 - 10:57 AM

I suspect another airflow issue that's not allowing all your boost into the engine.
it should make 20psi+ and hit boost cut by 3500rpm in 4th gear.

Leaky BOV or secondary BPV wasting your boost,
blocked cat or badly leaking exhaust not allowing the car to breathe properly

I'd be interested to see AFR's on this one, overly lean they won't make boost either

 



#53 Ordex

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 08:46 PM

Hi all, bit of an update for you from the last few months, and also another request for help/advice!

 

I took the car into autocraft to get a few things seen to, obviously also discussed the boost issues. They happened to notice gaskets on the (aftermarket) intercooler missing and fit them. It made no difference to the boost issues however while the intercooler was off they did notice metal flakes in it and suspected it be from one of the turbos (seems reasonable conclusion to me!)

 

They recommending inspecting the turbos so over the last month in between other things I've managed to get both turbos off the car. It was a good experience although removing the secondary was a little tricky - but easy once I got a good long-reach spanner! I dropped the turbos into autocraft this morning to get inspected. Both turbos have shaft play but spin by finger (they stop as soon as you let go so not free spinning). One of them also emptied alot of oil out the inlet (can't remember if it was the primary or secondary).

 

I haven't checked back in to see how things went, but my money is on one or both being pretty well shagged out as we always suspected.

 

I'm interested to know what people's thoughts are on the following options:

  • Replace shagged out turbos with 2 turbos. Keep a stock TT setup and bolt everything back together
  • Go single turbo - the guides I've seen so far are for EJ20Rs, not EJ20Hs with 4-plug ECUs. Are there added complications attempting this conversion with an EJ20H? Is it possible to continue using the stock ECU with only a single turbo?
  • Replace engine altogether with something else from Subaru. Are there any options that would just drop in? What else would be required? Wiring loom replacement? Transmission replacement?

I'm not particular about any one option at the moment, but the lower the expense the better.

 

Any answers I find myself to the above questions I'll post back here



#54 LukeFranky

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 10:44 PM

Have you smoke tested the intake?

Easy to DIY with a compressor, paint/milo tin, oily rag, some tubing and a lighter.

I've sworn black and blue that I didn't have any leaks, but later discovered I did with a smoke test.

The B4 Bomber - 2002 MY03 Subaru Liberty B4, ADM, Manual, EJ208. 


#55 Ordex

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 06:09 PM

No I haven't done a smoke test but I would if swapping turbos didn't help with the boost issues at all.



#56 LukeFranky

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 10:29 PM

I'd suggest doing a smoke test first. A boost leak might actually be the reason the turbos are working too hard and failing.

I have a couple of alright secondary turbos and a noisy but working primary turbo if you're interested.

The B4 Bomber - 2002 MY03 Subaru Liberty B4, ADM, Manual, EJ208. 


#57 Ordex

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 03:56 PM

Luke what turbos do you have?

 

The verdict was most likely secondary the culprit for spitting out metal flakes due to the amount of shaft movement in it. They had twins off a B4 in the workshop, so I'm going to have a go using that secondary (VF33?). Also got the ECV ported seeing as I had pulled it off the car. So I guess for now I'll keep fiddling away with twins as I haven't yet been able to find a way to convert the EJ20H to support a single-turbo (mainly because of the loom/ECU plugs it uses).



#58 duncanm

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 04:40 PM

ermmm... doesn't a BG TT require a secondary with a wastegate ?



#59 Ordex

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Posted 23 September 2016 - 07:03 AM

Well mine already had a VF19 secondary without a wastegate installed when I bought the car. The guys on here did up some very good diagrams showing how to plumb the vac lines suit this setup.



#60 duncanm

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Posted 23 September 2016 - 10:10 AM

ermmm... doesn't a BG TT require a secondary with a wastegate ?

 

go back - read first post - keep mouth shut next time...






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