I have a brake upgrade in the pipeline.
Twin piston fronts w/315mm rotors and single piston rears w/290mm rotors.
Will the standard GT master cylinder be fine to run this setup?
Thanks.
Master cylinder.
Started by CRUISN, Sep 06 2008 01:59 PM
38 replies to this topic
#1
CRUISN
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Posted 06 September 2008 - 01:59 PM
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#2
Soop
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Posted 06 September 2008 - 02:35 PM
Yep 
.
.
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#3
Mav
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Posted 07 September 2008 - 10:57 AM
have you got any pricing on the rotors yet?? what brand are you goin for mate?
current - 2006, Gen 4 - 3.0r - spec b, mods - Cusco Strut Brace, Cusco 23mm Rear Swaybar, Cusco BCS, JDM spec b Grille, 6000k HID Xenons, UltraWhite LED Parkers
former - 2000, Gen 3 - 2.5l RX Liberty, mods - Powerchip Gold 98, Borla extractors, Cat-back sports exhaust, Bilstein Suspension w/ Kings low's, Whiteline X\Heavy duty ADJ rear swaybar, Whiteline front Strut Brace, 6000k HID Xenons.
former - 2000, Gen 3 - 2.5l RX Liberty, mods - Powerchip Gold 98, Borla extractors, Cat-back sports exhaust, Bilstein Suspension w/ Kings low's, Whiteline X\Heavy duty ADJ rear swaybar, Whiteline front Strut Brace, 6000k HID Xenons.
#4
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Posted 07 September 2008 - 01:28 PM
How do heck do you profess to know?Yep
Luckily, I have managed to save this XLS file from there. Its a great little tool allowing you to mix and match braking
components from other subaru cars. Trouble is, that they're USDM models.
Have a play of it.
get it from here..
http://www.mediafire...2db6fb9a8902bda
Although I can't say whether your brake cylinder should be up to the job or not, I think you should have a play of the calculator. I think from memory the gen 4 interestingly enough had a rather small BMC.
#5
Soop
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Posted 07 September 2008 - 02:09 PM
Meh, because asked the same question on RSLC and got the same answer.
I asked if it i was to use Brembo front and rear brakes, would i need to upgrade the master cylinder.
The answer was no, and that the factory item would suffice.
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#6
CRUISN
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Posted 07 September 2008 - 03:48 PM
Thanks paul.
Thanks for the link Alex.
Complete original, stock package Mav. Calipers, rotors and pads, all with delivery kms only.
Thanks for the link Alex.
have you got any pricing on the rotors yet?? what brand are you goin for mate?
Complete original, stock package Mav. Calipers, rotors and pads, all with delivery kms only.
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#7
alexGT
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Posted 07 September 2008 - 04:34 PM
mickey is still using the standard gen3 rx master cylinder and he has brembos. he reckons they are runnin fine.
MY07 GT spec B
#8
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Posted 07 September 2008 - 08:51 PM
mickey is still using the standard gen3 rx master cylinder and he has brembos. he reckons they are runnin fine.
Mickey may reckon they run fine, but Mickey also said the car ran fine with 326mm brembo fronts, with 260 odd mm rears, where it's blatantly obvious that brake bias was grossly mismatched front to rear. It was only until later that Mickey admitted to having woefully biased brakes until he installed the rear brembos. Wisdom in hindsight is a beautiful thing!
I think people are a little naive when it comes to brakes, and the fact that people don't really pay attention to critical elements such as the brake master cylinder, and more importantly, brake bias. Adopting a "she'll-be-roight-maite" kind of attitude is poor to say the least.
My personal viewpoint is that if you're going to upgrade to brembo brakes, why not upgrade to the relevant master cylinder too, to harness the full potential of the brakes as intended by FHI?
My frame of thinking Mark is that the GT ran 277mm fronts, GTB ran 294mm fronts. There was no change in rotor diameter until the Brembo equipped STi's came out (326mm). So upgrading brake cylinder to at least to GTB/WRX 4pot size would be a bare minimum in my books.
#9
Soop
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Posted 07 September 2008 - 08:58 PM
Is there actually a difference though?
From everything I've looked at, there doesn't seem to be.
Because I've been wondering the same thing myself. I want to run front and rear Brembo's on the wagon.
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#10
fatcat67
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Posted 07 September 2008 - 09:10 PM
I did think the latter Gen4's had larger master cylinders volumetrically. As soon as RSLib comes on line I'll find that thread with the x-cell files.
As Tony Montana would say:
In this country, you gotta make the money first.
Then when you get the money, you get the power.
Then when you get the power, then you get the women.
In this country, you gotta make the money first.
Then when you get the money, you get the power.
Then when you get the power, then you get the women.
#11
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Posted 07 September 2008 - 09:10 PM
Without sounding like a slack bastard,Is there actually a difference though?
From everything I've looked at, there doesn't seem to be.
Because I've been wondering the same thing myself. I want to run front and rear Brembo's on the wagon.
1) What have you looked at to determine the difference?
2) Can you actually afford Brembos? I thought this wagon of yours was a "budget build". Brembos are definitely not
for the budget oriented.
I mean, I'm up to $4000 so far, and I still don't have discs yet. How much did you buy your car for?
From what I've been told from a couple of sources, the STi runs a 2 1/8th inch BMC, Whereas most other
subarus run a 2". I have reason to suspect that NA cars (especially ones that ran tiny little single potter fronts) would have an even smaller BMC, as they require less volume to activate such small brakes.
#12
Soop
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Posted 07 September 2008 - 09:17 PM
To be honest, I've only done some research online.
I'll have to go measure the BMC i have in the shed to confirm the size.
I can afford Brembo's fine.
I'm not going to be limited to what i can do, based on some silly "Budget" notion. I started that whole thing on Ozlecrap to try and spark some enthusiasm. Failed in epic fashion.
The cost of the vehicle is irrelevant. Its for fun, not financial gain....
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#13
fatcat67
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Posted 07 September 2008 - 09:48 PM
$3.5k including braided lines, dogbones, and DS2500's all round.Without sounding like a slack bastard,
1) What have you looked at to determine the difference?
2) Can you actually afford Brembos? I thought this wagon of yours was a "budget build". Brembos are definitely not
for the budget oriented.
I mean, I'm up to $4000 so far, and I still don't have discs yet. How much did you buy your car for?
From what I've been told from a couple of sources, the STi runs a 2 1/8th inch BMC, Whereas most other
subarus run a 2". I have reason to suspect that NA cars (especially ones that ran tiny little single potter fronts) would have an even smaller BMC, as they require less volume to activate such small brakes.
I have specifically got a '02 RA BMC for exactly the above mentioned reason. If I'm racing and my pedal is already travelling a long way because I am using an insufficient BMC setup, and the fluid goes off for some unknown reason, the last thing I want to think is shit I wish I had upgraded my BMC. I want to know that I'll still have some pedal to push to pull the car up. RA's also don't run ABS, so perfect for the application.
As Tony Montana would say:
In this country, you gotta make the money first.
Then when you get the money, you get the power.
Then when you get the power, then you get the women.
In this country, you gotta make the money first.
Then when you get the money, you get the power.
Then when you get the power, then you get the women.
#14
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Posted 08 September 2008 - 10:38 AM
Frank,$3.5k including braided lines, dogbones, and DS2500's all round.
I have specifically got a '02 RA BMC for exactly the above mentioned reason. If I'm racing and my pedal is already travelling a long way because I am using an insufficient BMC setup, and the fluid goes off for some unknown reason, the last thing I want to think is shit I wish I had upgraded my BMC. I want to know that I'll still have some pedal to push to pull the car up. RA's also don't run ABS, so perfect for the application.
If you could get a photo of the two side by side, that would be great!
LX Liberty vs 02 RA should make for an interesting comparison.
#15
fatcat67
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Posted 08 September 2008 - 11:21 AM
As soon as its in my hands, i'll put some pictures up.Frank,
If you could get a photo of the two side by side, that would be great!
LX Liberty vs 02 RA should make for an interesting comparison.
Prbably the same as '02 STI without all the extra piping.
As Tony Montana would say:
In this country, you gotta make the money first.
Then when you get the money, you get the power.
Then when you get the power, then you get the women.
In this country, you gotta make the money first.
Then when you get the money, you get the power.
Then when you get the power, then you get the women.
#16
Naif
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Posted 08 September 2008 - 06:53 PM
Alex you seem to know a fair bit about this, so why dont people just fit an ABS BMC to a NON ABS car for a BMC upgrade? the difference in the piston area is quite alot and can be seen without any measuring instruments.
gx and RS both have the same rear brakes, just the rs has ventilated discs, fronts the rs are bigger and also twin piston, therefore would throw the brake bias out.
why is it the majority of cars have a larger rear brake then the front?
how are the brake lines will they need upgrading aswell?
#17
Soop
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Posted 08 September 2008 - 06:58 PM
The bias isn't effected.
The front brake pads have a much larger contact surface than the rears.
Go and measure both the front and rear pads.
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#18
cracka
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Posted 09 September 2008 - 09:47 PM
hmm you blokes have got me thinking (that hurts at the best of times.)i'm getting closer to my 4 pot fronts and 2 pot rears with braided line upgrade . now i'm wondering if a bigger MBC should be included as well. i've got an 02 b4 , how much diff is there between the 02 wrx and 02 b4 if any.
food for thought , i know the new wrx doesn't come out with 4 pots any more, instead they upgraded the MBC .
Nothing left to break .
#19
fatcat67
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Posted 09 September 2008 - 09:58 PM
You don't need to change anything Cracker. Its all good.
As Tony Montana would say:
In this country, you gotta make the money first.
Then when you get the money, you get the power.
Then when you get the power, then you get the women.
In this country, you gotta make the money first.
Then when you get the money, you get the power.
Then when you get the power, then you get the women.
#20
cracka
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Posted 09 September 2008 - 11:38 PM
sweeeeeet
Nothing left to break .
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