35 replies to this topic

[NQRSoobee]

Today on a nice mild 27 C max day I did a short 4 or 5 km trip to the shops.  The ECU is still trying to learn the new settings but it's obvious the engine is a bit happier.  I also tried running the A/c on the way home and it's hunting much less when sitting at traffic lights idling.  Best of all no CEL after the 8 minute timeout but I put that down to it being a non cold day.

[NQRSoobee]

Bad news, got a CEL again today.  Thinking I'll leave a battery connector off for 1/2 an hour or so to reset the ECU to see if it has an effect.

 

The good news is a new Gates timing belt was fitted yesterday.  The tensioner and idler pulleys were replaced but the water pump in the kit was the wrong one so couldn't be fitted.  Had my mechanic fit the timing belt kit I bought as I don't want to dilly dally about with scun knuckles all the while getting sunburnt on hot concrete (been there done that in my teens).  Also had the cam & crank seals replaced at the same time.  The old seals were the new brown coloured type not the original black so it's been replaced most likely at the previous timing belt change 25k km's / 6 years ago; my mechanic remarked that the water pump looked like it had been replaced at that time which is a big plus.

 

Cheers to Barbbachello for posts & advice on the front bumper bar area of Gen 2 Lib's.  Pulled the plastic surround off & did some adjustments to make it all fit a little better.  Absolutely hate the plastic clips used to hold the plastic surround onto the front bar; they're a pain in the proverbial to remove & replacements aren't so easy to source.  If I ever have to do the job again on any other car I'll source some off eBay well before so there's no running around to various "Speed Shops" to find replacements that will fit.

 

So, I've got a spare brand new water pump allegedly for a EJ25D as fitted to Gen 2 Lib's if anyone wants it cheap.

[NQRSoobee]

Okay, I'm at my wits end on this problem.

 

With the warmer weather I'm getting stable idle but the following behaviour:

1.  No CEL if I don't use cruise control within 8 minutes of starting the engine (8 minutes is time out of the ECU for going into closed loop operation instead of staying open loop & injecting a rich mixture).

2.  If I use the A/c at any time then I see:

  a.  Idle hunts from a low now of 500 rpm and up to 1400 rpm, &

  b.  Code 32 CEL.

3.  At times very abrupt throttle behaviour when below 2k rpm transitioning from trailing throttle to lightly on the throttle.  This occurs when I'm using very fine small throttle movements and I'm wondering if it's my adjustment of the TPS or even something silly like the throttle cable.

 

Constructive input appreciated.

[El_Freddo]

What's the code 32 looking at?

Cheers

Bennie

[NQRSoobee]

Cheers Bennie.  Code 32 is the O2 sensor but that has been replaced.  Not unless it's a dodgy sensor from new or there's an issue with the ECU / wiring to the O2 sensor... so I reckon I've covered all bases.

 

I'm wondering if I should buy a VAG cable then run FreeSSM to find out what the ECU is really thinking is the issue.

[El_Freddo]

Have you reset the ECU?  It may have stored that code and even though you've replaced the O2 sensor it still shows the code until reset.

 

Do the battery dance or have someone with a scan tool or some fancy thing that plugs in and can read/clear codes

See if that works.

Cheers

Bennie

[NQRSoobee]

Cheers Bennie thanks for sticking with this thread.

 

Yes, I have reset the ECU a number of times in the past by leaving the battery disconnected overnight.  Within a week the ECU had re-learnt & was popping a Code 32 CEL again.

 

There's a good chance I'll uncouple the battery this weekend as I found some info that suggests the (now redundant) Infrared central locking controller sits behind the glove box which I need to swap controllers for an RF controller that I have.  (Disconnect battery so no issues with airbags).  I'll report back next week what I observe.

 

If Subaru had fitted OBDII to Oz delivered cars back in 97 then I'd be cooking with gas as I have an UltraGauge but my Soobee has SSM.  I've got a copy of FreeSSM so just need to ID the correct VAG cable; I'm uncertain if there is only 1 type or I need a specific variant?

[NQRSoobee]

Just to update on this thread:

   With summer and the hot weather...

      Upside:       No CEL but only if I don't use the A/c within the first 8 minutes of starting the car.  :-)

      Downsides: The car now occasionally cuts out on depressing the clutch on return to idle.  :-(

                        Idle with A/c OFF is now bang on & smooth at 700 rpm.  :-)))))

                        Idle with A/c now hunts between 500 & 1200 rpm.  :-(

 

Still haven't got a clue at working out the rhyme or reason behind its behaviour.  Could even be as silly as being the rattly exhaust given a baffle has burnt its mount internally in the front resonator (there's no external hole in the resonator & the car's note is still quiet as stock).

[El_Freddo]

Thinking about this - do you have a good earth cable from the battery to the engine and from the battery to the chassis?

Are they clean contacts and are all the earth points on the engine AND body loom harnesses connected and clean?

Cheers

Bennie

[NQRSoobee]

Hi Bennie, apologies as didn't see your post.

 

Yes mate; for all the earth connections I could get to in the engine bay I've put a spanner to them, broken the friction lock, had a look if the connection was rusty etc (none were) and retightened.

 

Got a small win with the idling in that the drive in the morning to work if I floor it at low revs then shift up very early & do it through all gears while it's warming up I don't get a CEL and it stays in full closed loop all the way to work which means the idle is smooth and purrs like a kitten. 

 

Coming home from work I get an 80 kph zone almost immediately from out the carpark which means I get a CEL while still in the 80 kph zone and that means unsteady idle all the way home. 

 

The other complication is if I use the A/c.  With the climate air on and only when the compressor is running the idle jumps between 600 & 1400 rpm.  When the compressor cuts out the idle will hold for a second around 1200 rpm and quickly ease back to around 700 rpm.  Very strange behaviour which I intend to pull the battery lead off to reset the ECU today and see what happens as I have to use the brown beast for a trip this long weekend.

[El_Freddo]

These autos in the later models, do they still have a vacuum line to the box?

Thinking that if there is the traditional vac line to the auto's governor you could have an issue there that's causing the idle fluctuation.

Or there's a major issue with your IACV. I say this after thinking about the idle up when using the AC - that or the IACV is trying to compensate for the vac leak.

I'm keen to help you get to the bottom of this issue!

Cheers

Bennie

[Barbbachello]

No vac lines to the box

[NQRSoobee]

Hi Bennie & Barbbachello,

 

  Erm, it's a manual with a clutch that was on the way out when I got the car.  Now the clutch shudders enough on take off to warrant replacement.  Given what I want to replace the Lib with won't be on the market until Aug/Sept at the earliest so it means I'd better hit eBay soon before the Govt slugs me even more.  Cheap suggestions will be appreciated but I dunno how bad it is in there as it grips fine just shudders on take off.  Plus I have no idea if the dreaded dual mass flywheel is in there as the service manual says the clutch was replaced around 40,000 kms ago (A stuffed clutch in 40,000 km suggests one of the previous owners rode the clutch... badly).

 

  For the idle & Code 32 I was thinking IACV too but (more information) I've also got a rattle in the exhaust which the mechanic says is a loose baffle but the dang car is so low I can't get underneath it to check for myself (my trolley jack is seaping hydraulic fluid so isn't reliable).  My thinking is the rattly exhaust is fooling the knock sensor which retards the ignition which leads to a rich mixture which causes my O2 fault code.  Seems reasonable logic to me but am willing to be told "Nup".  However, the rattle is loud enough that I reckon a good look around with a cold exhaust will probably show up a loose heat shield rather than a loose baffle, again I'm willing to be told "Nup" except I'd really like to be rid of the noise as it's hugely annoying especially if I leave early for work.

 

A few other niggles with the car that need looking at in the future, soooo... if cheap front discs or pink bits struts (front is the culprit) come available then there's a possible customer here.

 

One last thing I discovered tonight.  A CEL code 12, I reckon it's my starting technique as I'm a bit quick off the key when the engine has that first cough suggesting it's gonna kick into life.  I think an ECU reset is in order to check if it's a real CEL or not.

 

Thanks again for checking in.

[El_Freddo]

Thanks barbs, rules that out!

And NQR - definitely rules out the auto vac line! For some reason I thought this was an auto...

Shuddering clutch: don't replace it. Go for a drive and let it slip a bit more than you usually would. The shuddering you're experiencing is a build up of clutch disc dust on the flywheel friction area. By purposely slipping the clutch you'll remove this build up and solve your clutch shudder. I double the clutch on down shifting while rev matching and I find my clutch shuddering regularly unless I give it a good bit of slip every now and then

Exhaust rattle should not interfere with the knock sensor. And it is probably a heat sheild or the guts of your cat dying.

Gutters are a good way to get under your car without jacking it up. Spoon drains are even better if you can safely get over them to get a wheel on either side

Cheers

Bennie

[NQRSoobee]

Hi Bennie,

 

  Idle wise I think I'm stuck with it given replacement IACVs on eBay are easily in the range of a couple of hundred $ and there's no guarantee it'll fix the issue, plus it's only six or so months before I'll be putting the RX on the market.

 

  Ah, so it's a known issue with Soobee clutches.  Kewl!  Only other issue I've ever had with a clutch is my Mazda where the flywheel can get slight waves across the surface which leads to shudder on initial take off.  That also explains why my Soobee's clutch grips fine in fifth when the pedals to the metal.  I'm not one to slip the clutch much, almost always match revs either going up or down the box so I pop the clutch without fanfare clunks or bangs from the driveline.  Let the engine do the work.

 

  Yep, tried my local gutters.  They're all the modern low rounded types which is great for not getting rim rash but they're not high enough and the vast numbers of ants tend to put me off too.  Spoon drains in SA are few & far between unfortunately as we don't need them... the old driest state in the driest habitable continent on earth thing.  I'd try a set of ramps but I'm fairly certain the front air dam would clip the ramp first before the front wheels would get to the ramp.  For the exhaust rattle itself as best as I can determine the noise is coming from somewhere behind the firewall and in front of the B pillar.  If I have the bonnet up the sound doesn't appear to be coming from the cat area but again I'm willing to be wrong.  Can't see anything or find anything loose under the bonnet area either as I had a good look while it was cold and given everything a good wiggle.

 

  So looks like I'm stuck with an unstable idle and a CEL when driving home from work (but no CEL going to work so that's a small win) plus giving the neighbourhood a bit of a rattle when going to/from work.  Well, it is a 21 year old car.

  Thanks to Bennie et al for your advice, it is much appreciated.

[NQRSoobee]

Just to add to this thread and given I've done pretty much everything except pop in a replacement IACV.   So, instead of shelling out the hard earned on an IACV which may be a wild goose chase I've been fiddling with the TPS and IACV adjustments and am now fairly certain some other pea-brain had fiddled with the settings to try to fix the CEL before I owned the car.  :-(

 

I think I've almost got the TPS adjustment correct.  What I did was move it back a good tad and found it would cause bad hunting at low throttle settings (which also depended on whether it was on the flat, uphill or down dale).  From this point I've been slowly creeping the TPS setting forward and seeing how it drives.  So far I think I've gotten rid of the hunting and as a bonus in the recent balmy weather I haven't been seen a Code  32 CEL either.  Once I'm fully happy that all hunting is gone at low throttle settings I'll leave that as the TPS setting and move onto tackle the IACV.

 

Idle revs can at times hunt badly and, using the Gen III idle revs as a guide, currently it's about 100 to 150 down at idle.  The assumption I'm using is that the IACV adjutment sets a base value for the opening of the IACV for revs at idle when the engine is at it's normal operating temperature and most likely unloaded (neutral if it was an Auto, headlights & A/c etc off).  Everything from that point is the ECU adjusting the IACV's opening to try to keep to what it thinks it senses as engine's idle revs.  That suggests to me I've either got a dud IACV (most likely), dud sensing of engine revs by the ECU (very unlikely as there are new cam and crank sensors) and/or the base setting of the IACV isn't enough and I need to open it a bit more to get those extra 100 to 150 rpm.  For the last option it won't hurt to slowly adjust the IACV setting and see how it behaves (this feels very similar to adjusting the air bleeds on a Weber carby).  Which means soon I'll be slowly adjusting the IACV and see how it behaves and hopefully have better idle behaviour.