14 replies to this topic

[Robdog77]

Hi guys..
New to this forum and Subies..
Absolutely love my Gen3 Subaru Liberty Heritage wagon,and already made a few improvements on it.
However,the fuel consumption seems a little high to me,giving me around 500kms to a tank..
Also,the car has very little go down low and I always seem to be kicking it down a gear to get up to speed..
It is an auto and up any kind of hill it just has a drastic drop in power..
Eg: if it is a 100 zone and I start the hill at 100,I have dropped to around 80 pretty quick and then need to almost floor it to get up the hill..it's kinda embarrassing!!
Maintenance wise,it has had new plugs,new engine oil and filter,new transmission oil and filter,throttle body cleaned...
No noises or smells..but something just doesn't feel right..
Any help would be much appreciated guys..Cheers

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[Jimbo]

500km out of a tank and you think its thirsty?? That's pretty good to be getting that much out of it.

Your engine might be getting a little tired. When you say it loses power, does it throw any codes or anything or is it just sluggish performance?

Have you done an upper engine clean before? Over time you get carbon build up and sludge all over the inner workings of the valve train. The UEC will get rid of all that build up and get it breathing much better.

The only other thing I can think of is that maybe the spark leads are getting tired or the O2 sensor might be on its way out. Usually the first signs of O2 sensors going kaput is strange behaviour under load ie, up hills.

Lastly, its possible the auto trans is having a hard time. Perhaps its trying to tackle hills in a taller gear when it shouldnt be. But you did say the trans had a flush. There is a way you can check the trans for error codes, have a search and you should find it. Likewise, check your ECU for codes too.

Apart from any of that, or perhaps the car is just straight up slow, I cant think if much else.

[Robdog77]

Much appreciated Jimbo..
I thought the 2.5 engine was supposed to be pretty good on fuel..but maybe 500 to a tank is.
Just replaced leads today and a slight difference in pick up..
No lights or error codes that I know of..
Never done a upper engine cleaner because I heard it can trigger the CEL ..
I pulled the plugs today before fitting leads even though the plugs were done about 2 months ago,and the tips were very dark in colour but no oil residue..not sure what causes that but I was surprised to see them looking like they had been in the block for a year or more .
Getting a diagnostic check done on it tomorrow but from the research I have done,I am thinking maybe the fuel pump has seen better days..
Cheers mate

[Robdog77]

So took the Subi to a mechanic today and he threw it up on the hoist,and immediately the bad news started..
There was coolant leaking on the passengers rack boot and oil leaking from from head gaskets..
There was a decent amount that would have built up over time as I have owned the car for around 3 months or so..
He sprayed brake cleaner on it and then did a pressure test on the radiator..
It didn't hold pressure and he said it has external gasket leaks..
Then he told me that the engine needs to be removed to sort out the gaskets..
Is he right that it can't be done in car?
I am not noticing any coolant or oil loss on driveway or when checking levels..
I don't have the funds at the moment to address the issue,but I also don't want to end up stranded somewhere..
Are there any cheaper solutions than removing engine and repairing it?
Any help or opinions is much appreciated right now guys..
Cheers

[Barbbachello]

The single cams can be done in the car but its fiddly and much easier to take it out if you have the tools, like a mechanic would. 

 

Unfortunately the 2.5s are renowned for blowing head gaskets. Its a when not an if they go. Given its external you could just keep driving it and keep an eye on the fluids until you have some cash to get it fixed. You could chuck some head gasket fix in a bottle in but they tend to clog everything up like the heater and radiator. Mainly designed as an emergency fix or to sell it to a used car dealer lel

[Robdog77]

Appreciate that Barbbachello..
I had a look at a few gasket fix products..
They all state that they don't affect the running of the vehicle and are a guaranteed solution..lol
I guess people that have used these products know better..
BTW..I love this site,very helpful and informative as well as sharing ideas and mod projects..

[El_Freddo]

The factory head gasket oil leak - we had the same but I found it after the engine was out of the vehicle.

 

Do a google search of that coolant leak - many nasty looking images to look at.  Head gaskets will be fine in terms of compression/cylinder seal with the head.

 

In terms of mileage, start tracking your distance covered for the amount of fuel put in the tank for a more accurate reading.  My sister's Gen3 RX wagon gets 500km/tank too.  It's a manual and regularly pulls 8.6L/100km (it all depends on how much fuel you put in the tank each time) - it has a sports exhaust with UELs and 17 inch rims.  No other mods.  And it needs an O2 and knock sensor (but $$$).  But it does country k's so very little stop/start.

 

Do the UEC job, and have a go at it before the HG work if you go down that road - follow the instructions and hold the revs as the instructions say.  Then go for a drive straight after the treatment (once everything is back together properly).

 

The Gen3s look awesome in my opinion.

 

Cheers

Bennie

[surge]

Appreciate that Barbbachello..
I had a look at a few gasket fix products..
They all state that they don't affect the running of the vehicle and are a guaranteed solution..lol
I guess people that have used these products know better..

When I blew head gaskets in my previous ej25 SOHC engine, using that $80 rislone fix did absolutely nothing to help.

But mine was an internal leak.
Not sure if an external leak would be fixable that way for a period of time.

I've tried changing the gaskets with the block in the car, it was doable. But so hard to put the heads back on without damaging the new gaskets.

It didn't matter in the end because the job needed to be redone and I took the engine out that time.
This is because the first go around I didn't get the heads machined.

Also it didn't let me check the condition of the rear main seal, which I'd probably get changed at the same time.

[Robdog77]

El_Freddo and Surge..
Your help and valuable info are much appreciated..
I am going to do the UEC in next few days just to see if I can get it to breathe a little better..
As for the HG..I don't have any symptoms at the moment,touch wood..
It doesn't get hot,no oil and coolant mix,no oil or coolant on driveway..
I have owned the car for roughly 3 months and the Timing kit was done about 5k before I bought it..
Whoever did the timing kit sheered a bolt or something off and it has a coolant leak from the casing..
It is leaking coolant and a little oil on the rack boot on passengers side and a little oil from drivers side..
Knowing it won't get any better,I have a decision to make..replace HG or replace engine with second hand one that is an unknown..
The mechanic told me that the car labers up hill and seems to be doing it in high gear and that it was probably babied by previous owner and ECU has adapted that driving style..lol
He actually told me to get up it a bit to try and change what the ECU knows..but that's not happening with a shot HG
Thanks again guys

[Jimbo]

It's always better to do the HG's on your existing motor than replace with another engine (unless it's just a short term fix, like if you were selling the car or trading it etc)

If you plonk in a second hand motor, there's nothing to say it wont do a HG a week later. That means you're back where you started and a fair bit poorer.

I've had blown HG's before which didn't show symptoms for quite some time, but I knew it was shagged. Just because there's no obvious signs as of yet, doesn't mean you're out of the woods.


I don't think the Gen 3 ECU's were really as advanced as to "learn" a driving style so I doubt very much what your mechanic told you about that. That's more of a much more modern car thing.

Straight up, if your HG's are gone, going up hill is the most load on the engine you're going to see, in turn, it would be the clearest indicator that somethings not right. 



 

[Robdog77]

Yeah..
I wasn't really buying the driving style reason..
I have assumed it is connected to the HG issue..
I guess I will try and get a few quotes on replacing the HG's ,but living on the far south coast means probably getting the car to Sydney and setting camp in a hotel for a few days..
Not a lot of engine rebuild type mechanics down here,although the guy I took it to did say he could do it for around $2k-ish

[Beckers]

2K to do head gaskets is pretty good. Depends on how many kms your car has done, but a head reco is not out of the question.

When I did my head gaskets, I found that it was starting to leak coolant, but had been leaking oil for over 5 years(only a small amount).

Dont even consider doing heads gaskets in the car, you have to only remove a little bit more stuff to get the engine out. 

So much easier to work on out off the car.

[Robdog77]

Cheers Beckers..
Not a shitload of oil,but decent amount of coolant..
No symptoms as yet,other than no power up hill..
Engine has 265k on it..

[RX25SE]

I'd imagine your mechanic will send out the heads for a surface, crack test and leak test the valves. When I did my Gen111 at 180 odd kms, I replaced the valve stem seals only as the rest was OK.

[Robdog77]

Thanks RX25SE..
I thought i found a car and model that has known reliability,but it kind of pisses me off that it could have been sorted by Subaru apparently with a few more head bolts..
To think that every one of these engines is a ticking time bomb regarding the HG frustrated the hell out of me..
If I was loaded,I would take them to court to force them to cover a portion of the replacement cost,regardless of kms or time..
You dropped the ball here SUBARU