11 replies to this topic

[duncanm]

So my '99 outback gearbox needs to be tossed. Input shaft bearings sounds like they're on their last legs.

 

Plenty of SG9 dual-range foz 'boxes around with the right diff ratio, but they have female outputs rather than stub axles.

 

Are the two solutions to this.

1/ get some spring-clip stub axles and put them into the SG box. -- which ones are compatible? (eg: https://twenty20raci...-pre-2004-cars)

 

2/ replace the inner CV's on my existing axles with stubbed ones.

 

I'm moving towards #2 - as I get can new inner joints less than that conversion kit.

 

 

 

[Barbbachello]

Manual boxes need to be split open to install/remove the stub axles so keep that in mind. Also afaik Twenty 20 have shut up shop but not closed their website so i wouldnt be buying them from them

Option 3: Male male CV shafts

04~-07 GG shafts are male male and will fit your existing stuff with the same track width

[duncanm]

Barbs,

 

I won't be removing the shafts from my existing box, so no need to split it.

 

Thanks for the axles info - didn't know which ones were the right length, plus I've got the added complication of that one or two years weirdness of early ABS tone ring location before they standardised.

[Barbbachello]

Youd need to split the new box to install them too. Only autos and 6 speeds are the spring clips. 5 speeds are circlips

If you need it on the shaft, remove it from your existing shaft and smack it onto the new shaft. 

If you have it on the hub. Smack the ring off the new shaft

[duncanm]

cheers for the confirmation - have gone for an SG9 box and a couple of new inner CV joints to put on my existing axles. 

 

You're right -- my hub-mount ABS would easily work with a hacked shaft-mount ABS with the ring knocked off.

[El_Freddo]

I reckon you’ll find the gearing different with the foz box - at least for 5th gear cruising. Don’t throw out your old box just yet - you could swap 5th ratio - or buy a 5th ratio from partsouq. I’ve recorded this part number - 0.71 5th ratio: 32315AA420 - from a 1999 WRX which is near the crossover to the phase 2 gearbox. The only difference between the phase 1 & 2 fifth ratio is the keyway.

If the issue is the input shaft bearing, why not crack it open and replace the bearing? It’s not a hard thing to do. The EJ boxes are easy to work on. If I were closer I’d ask you for the box to scavenge parts from for different projects.

As for the shafts issue. You can pull your old box apart and pull the stub axles and sun dials out, grind a groove in the end of the stub axle to fit the C clip (need to measure where exactly as I can’t remember off the top of my head). The sundials need to be swapped in place of the larger sized bearing retainers. Not a hard task to do if you count the number of turns to get the larger units out, then wind the sundials in the same number, job done, slot stub axles in place. This is what I’m doing with my brumby when the time comes - but with 23 spline stub axles initially.

Cheers

Bennie

[duncanm]

Bennie,

 

the foz box has a slightly higher 5th (0.780 vs. 0.825). That's a good thing.

 

All the other ratios including low range are the same as the outback box.

 

I realise fixing the bearings probably isn't that hard - just can't be f'd messing around with my only car off the road for any length of time. I'd rather just knock off the box change over a weekend.

[El_Freddo]

Yeah that’s a fair point about the vehicle downtime to replace a shot bearing.

I was thinking about this today and wondered why you pinpointed the input shaft as the dying bearing. Easier to diagnose with a dual range gearbox compared to the single range. If the noise can be heard at idle and it changes pitch when in low range, it won’t be the input shaft bearing. That means more effort to get to the bearing as it’ll be buried between gear sets.

Moot point but might help someone else down the track…

I recall there being a slight change in ratios between models, from memory it was the NA impreza box that had different ratios in 2nd onwards and the other boxes had the same 1st & 2nd with 3rd - 5th being slightly different. That was about 2014 when I was researching which box to rebuild my AWD offroad box with locking centre diff, so things are a bit hazy without looking at the research again.

Cheers

Bennie

[duncanm]

Bennie - may not be the input shaft bearing exposed at the bellhousing, but definitely on the input side of the gears. maybe somewhere further down the main shaft.

 

I don't know enough about gearboxes to say where, but your point about LR is interesting.

 

- noise rises with engine speed, not road speed

 

- quieter/different when in low range.

 

- possibly worse in 3rd/4th. Maybe this indicates which of the other bearings it may be.

[El_Freddo]

Sounds like that’ll be the bearing between 2nd & 3rd or 4th and 5th. Same happened on my Sister’s RX Liberty, probably near the 400,000km mark. I wonder I I dropped that gearbox swap in its thread.

At that point it had a small whine, and in town on light throttle it would slip out of gear all the time, 3rd and 4th mainly from memory. That could be the next symptom you experience. After that I believe the next move on the gearbox’s part is to have the bearing collapse in some way then you strip gears as they misalign and place extreme load on the gear teeth.

That’s how I see it anyway.

Cheers

Bennie

[duncanm]

Bennie - think your diagnosis is correct.

 

I note there's no noise when low range selector is in 'neutral'... so its not the input bearing.

[Barbbachello]

Imo unless its a whacky STi RA or DCCD box 5 speeds are cheap enough to just replace