4 replies to this topic

[twinturbosubaru]

In an effort to find out more information about this important topic I decided to fire off an email to the RTA asking some questions which I felt were reasonable and relevant, in the interests of being more educated on road safety initiatives and being able to pass on some factual information to the forum members.

My questions were based on responses to the initial thread regarding this topic, and other conversations I have since had with various people.

If and when I receive a response I will post it here for reference.

I also encourage you to read the following documents which outline some scary facts, one that stands out to me is that during a study conducted by an independent organisation into the effects of fixed speed cameras in NSW in 2005, in the majority of cases speeds actually INCREASED on the sections of road before and after a fixed speed camera location, sometimes up to 150% or more. Whilst it's a big document, I encourage people to read this study just to learn about how statistics are twisted to suit the intended audience, and how the real figures when read correctly actually show a sharp increase in speeds before and after a camera, sure they reduce bucket loads where the camera actually is, but what's the use of that when they increase substantially before and after. So much so that the study actually admits that the actual overall change in speed across the entire section of road before, during, and after a speed camera is statistically insignificant, and I quote "However, across the combined lengths
there was a non-statistically significant reduction of 6.2 per cent in injury crashes", everything is very heavily tilted towards the massive reductions in the very short section of road immediately around the camera itself. This is particularly covered in section "7. Major Findings" have a read, you will be amazed.

Document is here: http://www.rta.nsw.g..._evaluation.pdf

Here is another interesting read, monthly crash stats for NSW from November, sharp increases even with massive increases in fines, double demerit schemes, cameras, police, you name it they have thrown it at it trying to reduce fatalities but it's just not working, even the campaign for young drives is not justified, actually when comparing this years figures with the average from 2006-2008 the 17-20 y/o category is up 5.5%, 21-25 is up 5.9%, 26-29 is up 19.3%, 30-39 is up 11.6%, and 50-59 is up 40.6%, WOW, huge increases in areas way outside 17-25 y/olds.

When will these people wake up and smell the roses, people have to be taught to DRIVE, not just park and use their indicators. Mandatory driver training MUST happen soon or this will continue to happen.

http://www.rta.nsw.g...cident-data.pdf

Questions below:

- Do these new camera locations have the appropriate speed camera warning signs which are placed at other fixed camera sites before and after the camera ?
- Is there a speed advisory sign immediately prior to the safety camera location advising of the speed limit on that section of road as per the requirements for a normal fixed speed camera site ?
- Can you please advise if and how these new cameras actually prove who was driving the vehicle ?
- Was there a trial of these new cameras ? if so, could you please provide a softcopy of the outcome of that trial and any related recommendations including the organisation who performed that trial and produced those recommendations if that organisation was not the RTA ?
- Can you please advise how these new cameras handle heavy vehicles which may be unable to stop safely at an orange light and which then cause the trailer unit to cross the line into the intersection during the red light phase but when the prime mover was already in the intersection during the orange phase of the lights ?
- Has there been a study into the safety aspect of people perhaps stopping in an unsafe manner to avoid traversing the intersection immediately following the change to red whilst trying to avoid detection by the camera ?
- Has the delay from orange phase to red phase of the affected traffic lights been adjusted to compensate and allow for a safer stopping time and distances in these locations ?
- Is there a short delay between the camera triggering after the light phase has turned to red ?, or is the camera instantly active once the light phase changes to red ?
- Do these cameras capture speed at all times or only whilst there is a red light active in the appropriate direction ?
- Could you please advise the cost of implementing this scheme both in capital costs and operating expenses per annum ?
- Data in your November 2009 Crash bulletin shows that fatal crashes at intersections have decreased in the past 12 months, whereas fatal crashes at non-intersections have dramatically increased during that same period, why would more effort be put into intersection related accidents rather than other locations given this data ?, and also taking into consideration that this same data shows that intersection related fatal crashes accounted for only 16% of all fatal crashes in the past 12 months ?

Regards
Paul

[Shiv]

Interesting read...

I skimmed through the RTA documents and its the usual story that 'speed kills'.

http://www.rta.nsw.g...cident-data.pdf

^According to that, 43% of fatailities involved "excessive speed" which personally I find hard to believe. And what exactly is "excessive speed"? Doing 105km/h in a 100-zone? It doesn't really factor in road design or whether the deceased driver was ever taught how to drive on a highway, because obviously the RTA doesn't test that in its driving test.


Paul, I've done my own research into this and to answer a few of your questions:
- Do these new camera locations have the appropriate speed camera warning signs which are placed at other fixed camera sites before and after the camera ?
No, nothing more than the regular speed signs that would've been up when there was previously only a red light camera at those locations.

- Is there a speed advisory sign immediately prior to the safety camera location advising of the speed limit on that section of road as per the requirements for a normal fixed speed camera site ?
My understanding is that the RTA do not have to advise of you of the speed limit directly before a fixed speed camera. Its a popular myth that those 3-signs before the camera is due to law or legislation but that simply isn't true. The RTA is a law onto themselves. They're a body that make the laws. I believe the only reason they've done it in the past is so they can't be accused of revenue raising by hiding them in bushes where you can't see them.

- Can you please advise how these new cameras handle heavy vehicles which may be unable to stop safely at an orange light and which then cause the trailer unit to cross the line into the intersection during the red light phase but when the prime mover was already in the intersection during the orange phase of the lights ?
Haha, thats a very interesting point you bring up Paul! I would love to see a response to that, because its a valid issue, that. Until then, check your rear view mirror when braking for an amber light...

- Do these cameras capture speed at all times or only whilst there is a red light active in the appropriate direction ?
I would say that it is all the time based on my observations of the new cameras thus far - they're flashing very regularly. But this may need clarification.

[Shiv]

In the past week, I've got some new information on these cameras for those of you Sydneysiders - here is a list of the currently installed new cameras:

New Red Light/Speed cameras:

Dobroyd Parade & Timbrell Drive - Haberfield - AKA City West Link!! This is just before the road opens up to a 70-zone. It is a 60-zone where the camera is, despite the nice wide lanes and smooth surface.
(Westbound) - hidden in trees next to Robson Park

Cumberland Highway & St John's Park Road - Canley Heights
(Southbound) - behind large 70 sign after School zone

Pennant Hills Road & Beecroft Road - Beecroft - I know the intersection, I was just wondering if someone could confirm if its a 60 or 70-zone there?
(Southbound) - next to Observatory Park

Devlin/Church Street & Morrison Road - Ryde - Those of you who came on the SubyClub Photoshoot a couple of months ago - this camera is located shortly after the Concord Bridge very near where Aek's car broke down. We passed it - be careful. Its a 60-zone BTW.
(Southbound) - downhill after Victoria Rd Overpass

Great Western Highway, at Reservoir Rd Huntingwood
(Westbound). Monitors right turns as well. Speed Limit 80km/h.

[Shiv]

And finally - these cameras had an initial grace period so no fines were being issues:

Thank you for your email.

In June 2009, the then Minister for Roads Michael Daley, introduced changes to the Road Transport (Safety and Traffic Management) Act 1999 to improve safety on rural and urban roads throughout New South Wales. The changes include the replacement of wet-film red light cameras with new digital red light and speed capable technology. These new digital red light/speed capable cameras will be called Safety Cameras.

The RTA commenced the progressive activation of the Safety Cameras on 18 December 2009. Warning letters will be generated for a short period at all new camera installation sites. The grace period has been established to encourage motorists to slow down and comply with traffic light rules, prior to infringements being enforced.

Please be advised that camera advisory signage is not a legal requirement in NSW however a single sign is located on each road approaching the intersection. This sign will read 'Safety Camera Ahead'.

For further information on Safety Cameras, please log onto the RTA website on http://whome.rta.nsw....ras/index.html

We trust this information is of assistance.

Compliance and Enforcement Branch
Roads and Traffic Authority

HOWEVER, that was a week ago. It is unclear when the grace period ends. I've heard commercials on the radio for these new cameras so I couldn't imagine the grace period lasting very long. Maybe they being in the new year...??

[Shiv]

1-more post from me - I read this on a Daily Telegraph article:

Among them are 29 combined red-light and speed cameras, four of which will be in fixed positions. The rest will be rotated around trouble spots.

Source

^I did not know that. Its only the Daily Telegraph so I don't know whether its true or not. My understanding was that the RTA was going to replace ALL of the old red light cameras with these new dual role digital cameras over the next 4-years.