28 replies to this topic

[WALKER]

Hi Guys,

I've just bought almost everything for my new audio system.


Fronts

6.5" Clarion SRQ1622S 2-WAY Componnent System
55W RMS (350w Peak)
30~35,000Hz Frequency Response
91dB Efficiency

Rears

6.5" Clarion SRG1622R Coaxial 2-WAY
35W RMS (250w Peak)
30~35,000Hz Frequency Response
91dB Efficiency

Amp

Kicker 4 Channel 11ZX350.4
60W RMS x 4
Variable high-pass filter (50-200 Hz, 12 dB/octave)
Variable low-pass filter (50-200 Hz, 12 dB/octave)

Head Unit

Pioneer 5.8"AVH2450BT
Bluetooth
iPod control (front USB)
Front Aux-in
3 x RCA pre-outs




What are your guys thoughts?
Not sure why I didn't think of it before, but should the rears match the fronts in RMS?
(Yet to buy SUB + AMP)

[SUBARU]

35rms is a little small for my tastes and not a massive fan of Kicker gear... But it looks ok.

From my experience, amps driving all four channels plus another amp for the sub is a little bit of an overkill for everyday use and causes a lot of draw on the tiny electrical system.
One thing I might suggest is to have the amp drive the front speakers and sub. The HU should have a built in amp of around 55, so should easily drive the rear speakers.
A 10 inch sub will be a good size, anything over 12 is just silly.

Follow the above and it should save a little bit of coin and sound mint.

[Richo]

Never had any problems with the below setup (power wise) unless I had it cranked to retarded ear hurting levels, all I did was get a slightly higher than normal CCA rating battery. My front/rear were not matched, but you want them to at least be close (I think ~10w RMS). I had a set of MB-Quartz originally in the rear, however they were too small and under powered. You just didn't hear them (were fine in a hatchback they came from)

Stereo:

• Alpine CDA-9815
• Alpine HDA-5460
• Alpine R type 6" splits
• Alpine R type 5 3/4" Coaxial
• Alpine F-Power (4x75w)
• 2x 10" Clarion XM1000
• Rockford Fosgate punch 500.2

IIRC, the sub amp in bridge was pushing out ~750w RMS

[SUBARU]

Upgrading the battery isn't a bad idea, especially if you're adding two amps. Go for a deep cycle battery, something like an optima blue top, instead of extra CCA's as that's only really helpful for starting power, not current draw.

Btw, when you buy your sub, don't let anyone sucker you into thinking you need a capacitor.

[Alex]

Btw, when you buy your sub, don't let anyone sucker you into thinking you need a capacitor.

Curious about this statement.

Not criticizing, it's been a while since I've taken car audio on a serious level, but intrigued to know why you say this Chris.

[RX25SE]

I would guess it's because a 4x60w amp would only draw a max current of 20amps?

[WALKER]

Yeah, as mentioned above.. I must have been on drugs when I bought the rears.
They were on sale for 55 bucks think I'll have to bite the bullet and invest in a better set closer towards the RMS of the fronts.

[SUBARU]

Curious about this statement.

Not criticizing, it's been a while since I've taken car audio on a serious level, but intrigued to know why you say this Chris.

Fair question Alex.

Capacitors are one of those topics that burn like wild fire on teh interwebz... To set the scene, I'm not totally against the use of a capacitor, as long as the electrical system can accommodate for it. My problem is that capacitors tend to never do what audio companies say they should.

Capacitors are essentially seen as a band aid fix in most applications, for the bigger problem in that the stereo system is drawing more power than the alternator can handle, so then starts drawing from the battery.

Even a 4 farad capacitor doesn't have enough capacity to continually level out the power distribution of a powerful system.

So, in this instance with a standard Gen3 alternator being around 85amps (from memory), with addition of 4x60RMS amp, plus talk of another amp being installed, the system doesn't stand a chance of keeping up.


A 4 farad capacitor will retain some charge at low volumes, but as soon as you fire up the system that charge will get sucked right out and start coming direct from the battery, which is why I mentioned getting a deep cycle battery.

I'll put it in a more technical way, from some other article I once read; If your car has a 12v battery and an alt. that puts out 14v, plus has two amps (let's say 1000w) and a sub. Now let's add a 1 farad capacitor, when charged to 14v stores about 84 joules.

With the battery sitting at 12v, the usable power of the capacitor is only 2v, or 12 joules. Now, you can't use more than 12 joules because that would place the capacitor in the range of where the battery starts being used.
The only way in which the power stored in the capacitor can be used would be to turn off the alternator or have power to its outputs drop (read overloaded).

The point being that the capacitor has 12 joules of power that we can use, which translates into 12 watts/sec. This will essentially power the 1000w amp(s) for a period of 12/1000's of a second.

That's pretty much a once off use of a 83hz test tone before it's dead and starts drawing from the battery.

So, in setting up a top end system, capacitors are rarely used. You can can either upgrade the alternator to accommodate for the extra load on the system, or you can build a stereo system around the available amperage that you've got.

Simple as that really!

[CodeBurn3r]

+1 for optima battery!

i'm just running the following on it and since upgrading to the Optima i no longer get dash lights dimming when i pump it up and the bass kicks in.

Pioneer DEH-8450BT - which runs fronts and rears off the internal amp..
Up front - MB Quart

ONX216 6.5in 40W RMS split

s

in the back - Pioneer 6in TSG's (crappy but do the job atm

)

250W amp

Bridged to run a single 10in JL Sub

with the stock sized battery at half volume my dash lights would start dimming on each thump
now with the Optima i can have every item on in the car and pump it and it is fine..

don't claim to know much about car audio but the Optima is awesome!

[Octane]

+2 for the optima battery. I'm running the yellow top in mine after killing an Apollo battery within a week of installing my 2nd amp.

As far as rear speakers go, it really depends on what your after, but I purposely left the rear speakers out of my system all together.
I really don't get why people need to have that rear fill. From a sound quality standpoint, it just muddies the sound due to the time alignment different to the fronts through cable lengths and the distance from the speakers to your ears.
Also, when you go and see a band, you don't stand with your back to the band do you? So why do you want the sound hitting you from behind in the car?

From an imaging and soundstage perspective, you should aim for the top of your dash to become the floor of the 'stage' where the musicians are. So you should be able to close your eyes and imagine exactly where each musician is on stage. Same goes for electronic music. Most 'good' dj's will do alot of work on perfecting the imaging, soundstage and separation so you feel like you can literally reach out and grab a sound from in front of you, wherever it may be on stage.

So yeah, maybe consider running the rears off your head unit (so you can't hear them in the front) and bridging your amp to send all of it's power to the front.
Also, if you can, have a play around with tweet positions to tune your soundstage height/width. Just run the cables a bit longer to them and put some blu-tac on them so you can mount them temporarily in a few different positions to see what works best.

Mine are mounted at an angle on the side of the front door woof's and pointed at the opposite side person's head. My stage height is about the middle of the dash though, so it could be higher.

[Sam]

I'm running 2 amps, and have the original battery in the car still, rated at 370cca...
Works fine?

[12.SLOW]

upgradeing battery and alternator is good idea if u going to go nuts with system or a capaciter

[WALKER]

I'm running 2 amps, and have the original battery in the car still, rated at 370cca...
Works fine?

What are the amps?

[ScoobyOutback]

In my Outback im running a,

• Kenwood 6.5 inch DD headunit with 55w x 4
• My splits are Polk Audio 6.5inch, 100rms(300peak)
• Rears are Alpine R 6inch, 100rms(300peak)
• I also have an Alpine R 4 channel amp 640w
• And also have an underseat Pioneer Active sub. With Mosfit amp. Think its about 150w

My HU is powering nothing and the amp is powering the the fronts and rears and just give power to the active underseat sub.

This set up I have no trouble with and sounds really good. Reason for the underseat sub is beacuse I didnt want to be stuck with having to move around a big sub in the back of my wagon.

[Sam]

What are the amps?

Pioneer 4 channel, think its 1200w dunno.
Pioneer mono, 600w

[WALKER]

In my Outback im running a,

• Kenwood 6.5 inch DD headunit with 55w x 4
• My splits are Polk Audio 6.5inch, 100rms(300peak)
• Rears are Alpine R 6inch, 100rms(300peak)
• I also have an Alpine R 4 channel amp 640w
• And also have an underseat Pioneer Active sub. With Mosfit amp. Think its about 150w

My HU is powering nothing and the amp is powering the the fronts and rears and just give power to the active underseat sub.




This set up I have no trouble with and sounds really good. Reason for the underseat sub is beacuse I didnt want to be stuck with having to move around a big sub in the back of my wagon.

I've just looked at the specs of my HU.. It puts out 50w x 4

Would that be in RMS? if so.. why the hell would I need an amp that puts out 4 x 60 RMS

EDIT

nevermind! found an answer!

http://www.avsforum....4x50w-head-unit


I know it seems like i didnt do my research but really I DID!
It's kind of hard to find answers that you don't know need answering!

[Octane]

For all things car audio. What you cant find on here isn't worth knowing. http://www.mobileele....com.au/forums/

[Alex]

Simple as that really

Cheers Chris.

I've never used a cap, but alternators were always a problem in the past when stereos become more and more extravagant!

[SUBARU]

Cheers Chris.

I've never used a cap, but alternators were always a problem in the past when stereos become more and more extravagant!

anytime my friend.

[skillionaire]

Hi,

Just quietly saying the knowledge in this thread is invaluable. Thanks for contributing guys!

Cheers,
Nik