68 replies to this topic

[Soop]

Depends on the item usually. At a guess, I'd say a minimum charge of perhaps $75. If it were me, I'd be hard pressed justifying getting off my arse for $75.

[CRUISN]

Techworks intakes are indeed a nice bit of kit. But @ $400 imo the cost far outweighs the benefit for your 2.2. Add at least $100 for powdercoating, plus you also need a pod filter. $600+ total.

[Soop]

Mark, No offense intended. But comments like that really need to be reserved until you've tried it . It beats the crap out of a dodgy Bunnings setup. Much quicker throttle response, more bottom end torque and my car uses slightly less fuel. Having a bit of flexible pipe in-place of the resonator is what does SFA for an NA. Waste of time if you ask me.

[SUBARU]

Techworks intakes are indeed a nice bit of kit.

But @ $400 imo the cost far outweighs the benefit for your 2.2.

Add at least $100 for powdercoating, plus you also need a pod filter.

$600+ total.

IS this price serious?? Far too expensive compared to the gains received.

Mark, No offense intended. But comments like that really need to be reserved until you've tried it .
It beats the crap out of a dodgy Bunnings setup. Much quicker throttle response, more bottom end torque and my car uses slightly less fuel.

Having a bit of flexible pipe in-place of the resonator is what does SFA for an NA. Waste of time if you ask me.

Come on Paul... Don't be so stubborn about protecting the NA's!! I refuse to belive that you can justify the expense vs gains of this.
I wouldn't knock the good old bunnings back yard job with the flexi pipe. Did you try it? It's about $570 cheaper than what you're suggesting and I bet it delivers the same type of results.

Tristan, do yourself a favour and go to Autobarn/Supercheap and get yourself some intercooler piping and joins and fabricate it yourself. I did that on mine and it cost me about $130 from memory.

[Soop]

We're comparing a Gen3 with Gen2 here mate.
Totally different intake setup.
Your setup works great, and is essentially what I have from Mick.

The gen2's are a different story.
The center section of pipe work between the throttle body and the air box is corrugated and reduces to about 1.75" in diameter.

Micks setup removes the air box, keeps a consistent 3" diameter right down into the guard and allows for all the vacuum lines to be fitted up as per factory.
I am quiet happy with the improvements myself. If the next person doesn't think its worth it, then so be it. That's the beauty of having a mind of your own.

I'm not "protecting" anything. I am telling the truth as I see it. I have tried many many different things, and feel that this particular setup is the best one.
Paying for one of these is not the only method. But it is the easiest.

The basic theory is, remove corrugations in the pipe work, this up-sets the air flow which causes turbulence which will slow it down.
Remove restrictions. Air box/Tapering pipe work/Resonators/Press formed bends.

If you can do that, and find a way to still fit the vacuum lines then go for it I say. I pose no objection to innovation, I'm simply providing an option.

Tristan - What Chris has, as great as it looks and functions, WILL NOT fit your car. Trust me if it did i would have done it myself.

Chris - This is what the Gen2 has standard. I'm missing the little snorkel thingo here that butts up to the headlight.


There are at least 5 vacuum lines that attack to the resonator on the throttle body and one from the mid pipe to the IACV.
Removing that resonator makes a massive difference to the throttle response.
The mid pipe, is corrugated and tapers in the middle as I said previously.
The air box is neither here nor there. I removed it because my item was the first made by Mick as a trial. He can make them to include the air box, and it works out a bit cheaper due to less materials. (1x less Silicon join, less Stainless, less welding, no AFM extension)

[SUBARU]

Tristan - What Chris has, as great as it looks and functions, WILL NOT fit your car. Trust me if it did i would have done it myself.

All valid points Paul.

True - What I have won't fit a Gen2, but you can still fabricate one from off the shelf bits and pieces that are available at most auto parts stores.

I guess it comes down to whether an individual has the means to go for the whole hog or would like to give it a crack themselves.

[Soop]

The only problem with trying to make something for the gen2 with parts from auto-supermarkets is again, the issue with the vacuum lines. While you should be able to get the points welded on to attach the hoses, You'll most probably have to by more hose to reach. I highly doubt they'll get it right without having the car to work off. If you leave them the car, it's another hassle. Then you have the whole issue of cutting angled parts. The intake obviously isn't as straight as yours is. And will require either metal bends to be cut or silicon bends to be purchased. I know from speaking with Mick, that the silicon bends are by no means cheap. From memory the intake to throttle body reducer (3" - 2.25") cost about $50. At an estimate your going to need at least three or four bits of it to make it all fit together. I don't mean to put a dampener on any enthusiasm. By all means go and give it a crack, I'd love to see it happen. But there is a bit to consider.

[CRUISN]

No offence taken, but its still way over priced imo for the gains.

Here was my intake on my 2.2. A series 1 intake pipe, nice and direct and it didnt reduce in size. A 90mm 45deg pvc pipe from inner guard into airbox. Cost $34 total. Pipe from wreckers and pvc from Bunnings.

[Soop]

I had a similar setup as you know Mark. I find the new one works noticeably better. And I'm not trying to justify spending the money. I didn't spend $500 on it .

[CRUISN]

I designed and built this one, including fabricating the airbox. This worked a treat. All up with s/steel pipe, silicone joiners and K&N cost me $250.

[Soop]

That looks tops mark. Did the Mazda have the issue with vacuum lines in the intake?

[Evil_VZ-T]

Micks CAI is mint, His work is exceptional and id say one of the best i know. alot of RnD went into the CAI. 3" stainless steel piping isnt cheap either, hence the cost. id love to see someone make one exactly the same at a cheaper price. labour not included

[CRUISN]

Did the Mazda have the issue with vacuum lines in the intake?

Just had one line for the crank case breather, but you can see the little filter sticking out under the engine cover.

Im in no way saying anything negative about the quality or cost of Micks intake. They are exceptionally well put together. Im just stating that IMO the cost versus benefit/gain on an NA is something that should be taken into consideration.

I can get front and rear HD alloy links, plus front and rear sways for a tad over $500. Which would be more beneficial?

[Soop]

Of course. I will always argue that you should spend money on good quality suspension components prior to even worrying about anything else. By which i mean. Upgrade to 17" rims as soon as you can. The extra diameter wheel will obviously mean you loose flex in the side wall, due to the fact that as the wheel diameter increases the tyres profile decreases. Purchase GOOD QUALITY tyres, I'm sure just about everyone has seen cars getting about with very expensive rims and $20 Taiwanese tyres on them. It's the tyre that keeps you on the road and point in the proffered direction. So skimping here is downright retarded. You're better of getting some second hand 17" WRX or Liberty rims and putting Pirelli P-zero's on them, than you are to purchase some TE37's and having "Dodgy Ronny from down the roads rubber special " tyres fitted. Try to avoid second hand components, unless they are known to be in very good condition. Particularly struts and coil overs. Remove the under steering characteristic by replacing the standard sway bars with 22mm front and rear items. If I had to do it again, I personally would go for a 24mm rear sway bar. Just because i like to have the rear end a little bit more twitchy than what it is currently. When replacing the sway bars, Particularly on a gen2. You MUST replace the plastic end links. They will snap with the extra load on them. You can replace them with steel end links or if you have the cash some HD Alloy links are the go. All are available through whiteline. After this, i would look at chassis bracing. Front and rear strut braces. The rear item is more of an issue with wagons, but a sedan will also benefit from it. Try to avoid Ebay items where possible. The construction of them is often fairly poor and generally they use a flat bar to brace the chassis. Flat bar has sweet f*ck all torsional strength and will bend with the car. Thus making it totally useless. Oval and tubular bracing bars are the best for this application. You can spend a fair drop of coin on brand name braces, but I've found my N*power items work very well. The cost me $160 for the both of them. The Strut braces are never going to have a massively noticeable impact on the vehicles performance. Nor will the do much of anything unless you've upgraded the standard suspension prior. Strut braces simply stiffen the chassis of the vehicle, so that the upgraded performance components can function at their optimum level. Lastly (Off the top of my head anyway) replace the rubber bushes in the steering rack, control arms and trailing arms. This WILL increase NVH issues (Noise, Vibration, Harshness), but will keep all the suspension geometry in line. The load put on the suspension components while being driven hard is enormous, as such things want to give in and move with the direction of the load. Rubber bushes do this very readily. They work well for a comfortable ride but but lack the stiffness needed for those wanting something a little more serious. Keeping everything in line will allow your suspension to do its job properly. That being keeping the maximum amount of rubber on the road as possible. The more rubber on the road, the more grip you have, the faster you will go around the corner safely. I will have most definitely missed something there, and it may not be 110% accurate. But you get the general idea.

[CRUISN]

Nice write up Paul.

[Blaeven]

cheers paul... oh, btw... i've got 17' BBS B4 wheels... with Khumo Ecsta's on them... i dunno where they stand as far as tyre quality goes... but given the shitty suspension i'd say they hold on pretty well

[Soop]

I don't know about the Khumo's. Never really looked into them. Only issue i have with the BBS rims is that you'll only ever get twin pot 294mm calipers under them. That's plenty and then some for an NA, but its still a limitation. In all honesty, your best bet Tristan is to get either some 03/04 STi struts and springs or perhaps source some coil overs.

[SUBARU]

I don't know about the Khumo's. Never really looked into them.
Only issue i have with the BBS rims is that you'll only ever get twin pot 294mm calipers under them. That's plenty and then some for an NA, but its still a limitation.

In all honesty, your best bet Tristan is to get either some 03/04 STi struts and springs or perhaps source some coil overs.

The Khumo Ecsta's aren't a bad tyre. You can't really go wrong with anything that's DOT approved these days. Of course, some of the premium brands have had more R&D pumped into their design, but you'll be amazed at how many of the "budget brands" come out of the exact same factory as the "premium brands"

Unless you're planning on doing track work, 294mm and twin pots is plenty of braking power for the libs, whether they be a Turbo or an NA. What you talking about Paul?
This configuration is/was on B4, Foz, WRX....

[Naif]

Hey all...

- the clutch is too heavy compared to any other car i've driven (a new spring on the clutch pedal perhaps??) your car isnt fitted with a heavy duty clutch is it?
- the gears very infrequently crunch when i change them (mainly first and mainly when i'm at a stand-still) possibly shit spigot bearing in the flywheel
- the gearstick is wobbly (need new linkage bushings?) get under and look up at your shifter mechanism at the back of the gearbox, is there a spring fitted? if not this is your problem
- the brakes are spongy (despite being new pads and being bled both by me and by ultratune when they did my 200kkm service, however the wheel does wobble when i brake hard, so i think i can fix this my machining the rotors?) possibly your brake lines need replacing and are balooning under pressur
- the steering has a dead spot in the middle and jumps from side to side whenever i go over little undulations in the road (it has had a wheel alignment)
- the rear shocks are bouncy (need to be replaced) buy sti struts
- it sits too high (i will lower it soon, though i'm torn between wanting more cornering performance or just going for looks)
- it uses too much petrol (running rich?) check the 02 sensor using a multimeter, mine was jammed on 0.2 volts which is telling the ecu its running super lean = use more fuel, also purchase some aerostart or start ya bastard and spray it around your engine bay anywhere there could be an air leak, if theres an airleak the ecu will try and correct it by adding more fuel
- it sounds like someone's doing a fart when i accelerate (also due to running rich??)
- when i'm rolling down a hill (there are some steep hills near my mates place) in first or second, doing under 2k rpm, it pops and backfires... i took a video, i'll post it soon so you guys can hear... popping and crackling(depending on the kind) is normal when a larger exhaust is fitted to the car, but it could also be a sign of needing to get your injectors cleaned and orings changed as coasting down a hill injectors should be switched off.
- it's too loud (i'm going to get another resonator put on soonish) buy an sti rear muffler

02 sensor will change what sound the exhaust makes, if the car runs rich.
IIRC the 02 sensor is only active when the engine is under progressive load. I.e accelerating.

The ECU reads the o2 signal and compares what is physically coming out of the exhaust, to a pre-determined optimal Air/fuel ratio for that particular load.
The load is determined by a few sensors. Mainly the Throttle position sensor, and the Air flow meter.
This combined with the 02 sensor the ECU can determine what the driver wants, and what the engine has to work with.

So if the o2 sensor is failing, and telling the ECU that the engine is running lean, it will pump more fuel in. If the engine doesn't have sufficient oxygen to burn, it cannot burn the fuel. So it gets expelled on the exhaust stroke. Once the unburnt fuel makes it into the exhaust pipe there is sufficient oxygen and heat for it to ignite. Thus your back fire, or the popping and crackling.

That's a reaaally basic run down of it. There are a lot of other components that the ECU takes into account also.

soop the 02 sensor is only used on light throttle upto 55% (closed loop) anything over the ecu reverts back to its stored maps (open loop)

[Not Marv]

You're better of getting some second hand 17" WRX or Liberty rims and putting Pirelli P-zero's on them, than you are to purchase some TE37's and having "Dodgy Ronny from down the roads rubber special " tyres fitted.

Oi! I like my TEs with dodgy rubber thank you very much!

Try to avoid second hand components, unless they are known to be in very good condition. Particularly struts and coil overs. Remove the under steering characteristic by replacing the standard sway bars with 22mm front and rear items. If I had to do it again, I personally would go for a 24mm rear sway bar. Just because i like to have the rear end a little bit more twitchy than what it is currently.

Second-hand parts can be fine, just check them thoroughly, research your purchase and if the deal seems too good to be true it probably is. Struts and coilovers can be bought 2nd hand no worries so long as you don't blindly throw cash around like a spastic, though I'd definitely try to buy something already in Australia rather than trying your luck overseas.

STi struts with pink springs would be a great set-up on the street as they're almost as good as many bottom-of-the-range coilovers. Teins can be had from Fulcrum in QLD as they're the official agents for the brand in Australia, and they developed Aus-spec coilovers for them (plus they can rebuild all Teins).

Also, what you really want to do is dial the understeer out of your set-up and make it more neutral so the car can be driven through either the understeer or oversteer. You definitely don't want it twitchy, and I reckon a 24mm rear bar is massive overkill on a street-driven car. 20 or 22mm would be fine.

When replacing the sway bars, Particularly on a gen2. You MUST replace the plastic end links. They will snap with the extra load on them. You can replace them with steel end links or if you have the cash some HD Alloy links are the go. All are available through whiteline.

Get the solid alloy ones, especially if you're going for a 24mm bar. They aren't much more expensive and do a far better job as I've seen the lesser ones destroyed with hard cornering.

After this, i would look at chassis bracing. Front and rear strut braces. The rear item is more of an issue with wagons, but a sedan will also benefit from it. Try to avoid Ebay items where possible. The construction of them is often fairly poor and generally they use a flat bar to brace the chassis.
Flat bar has sweet f*ck all torsional strength and will bend with the car. Thus making it totally useless.
Oval and tubular bracing bars are the best for this application. You can spend a fair drop of coin on brand name braces, but I've found my N*power items work very well. The cost me $160 for the both of them. The Strut braces are never going to have a massively noticeable impact on the vehicles performance. Nor will the do much of anything unless you've upgraded the standard suspension prior. Strut braces simply stiffen the chassis of the vehicle, so that the upgraded performance components can function at their optimum level.

Lastly (Off the top of my head anyway) replace the rubber bushes in the steering rack, control arms and trailing arms.
This WILL increase NVH issues (Noise, Vibration, Harshness), but will keep all the suspension geometry in line.
The load put on the suspension components while being driven hard is enormous, as such things want to give in and move with the direction of the load. Rubber bushes do this very readily. They work well for a comfortable ride but but lack the stiffness needed for those wanting something a little more serious. Keeping everything in line will allow your suspension to do its job properly. That being keeping the maximum amount of rubber on the road as possible. The more rubber on the road, the more grip you have, the faster you will go around the corner safely.

The reason you fit those braces & bushes is to keep your wheel alignment stable and to stop it moving during the stress of cornering... which is what Soop said, but in a round-about manner

PS: that post sounds kind of like a convo I once had with a certain someone