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#21 fatcat67

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 05:21 PM

wot do you mean from subaru, do they source second hand short block as well. i have a couple of sources myself, wondering who supplies who.
2.5 eh, starting to lean this way a little more. some one else i'm in contact with is also going this direction.
i take it then i should run a little less boost than normal with the 2.5 then.

You can get them NEW directly from Subaru Cracka. Price should be between 2.5-3K. Try and wangle trade price.
Twins can work on a 2.5 with standard pistons, and they'll handle the stock boost levels. It would be a torque monster with similar top end to the 2.0l.
I'm unsure how you'd go ECU wise however. If you've had the ECUtek done, it may be worth asking if that can be tuned to suit the extra capacity.
220km/h is an unusual circumstance, so maybe go a bit easier. An ACL race bearing kit and forged pistons do however make for a fairly cheap insurance policy against the dreaded ping.
As Tony Montana would say:
In this country, you gotta make the money first.
Then when you get the money, you get the power.
Then when you get the power, then you get the women.

#22 cracka

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 07:00 PM

yeah now i'm even confused a bit more.2.5 - 3k is this just for the block,not including pistons etc etc someone i'm talking to is looking at 8k for a new bottom end. will have to enquire a bit more when i get a day off work. at the end of the day i want to end up with a motor a lot stronger than what i had and handle the punishment dished out to it for breakfast, 220 is peanuts on the so if the 2.5 is not up for it i wont get it. thanks for all input so far, i'm sure i'll need to pick some brains before this is done and dusted cheers cris
Nothing left to break .


#23 Hypnotic

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 07:10 PM

keep us posted with how you go, might give me ideas down the track aswell

As soon as she hands it to you, slowly take of your pants, then, while staring her straight in the eyes rub it against the tip of you penis, while continuing your painfully intense gaze whisper to her;
 
"My eye is watering, this might be a bit hot"

I should just convert to single, right?
 
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#24 fatcat67

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 08:57 AM

yeah now i'm even confused a bit more.2.5 - 3k is this just for the block,not including pistons etc etc someone i'm talking to is looking at 8k for a new bottom end. will have to enquire a bit more when i get a day off work. at the end of the day i want to end up with a motor a lot stronger than what i had and handle the punishment dished out to it for breakfast, 220 is peanuts on the so if the 2.5 is not up for it i wont get it.
thanks for all input so far, i'm sure i'll need to pick some brains before this is done and dusted
cheers cris

2.5-3K is for a short motor. Crank, rods, pistons, bearings, but no oil pump or water pump. This is not the recommended path past 200ATW due to the standard pistons not being up to that output for long.
But if you want it to handle 220AWKW all you meed to add is around 2K for Forged pistons, rings and race bearings, oh, and new head studs and gasket kit.
I'm just not sure what you're trying to achieve. With the twin turbo setup 220ATW is not really an option(unless you're Billsy). So if you are wanting to go single turbo then you have to factor in a new ECU, new turbo, exhaust headers, up-pipe, dump pipe, full exhaust, single intake, blocking oil feed from heads...........................................................and the list goes on. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
As Tony Montana would say:
In this country, you gotta make the money first.
Then when you get the money, you get the power.
Then when you get the power, then you get the women.

#25 cracka

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 12:56 PM

no definately want to stay with the twins, i guess i'm just trying to decide between the ej207 and ej257 as a replacement bottom end.i'm not really after anything past 200kw at all infact not sure if ill even reach that. i just need it to stand up to a the odd track day and the odd boot.the 2.0lt sound like it is stronger and can handle a bit more boost and the 2.5 sounds lika a torque beast but i an worried about it handling the potential detonation from bad fuel the costs can start to blow out real quick by the sounds of it so i was looking at bottom ends from half cuts, not ideal i know but maybe my only real option as with both i still have to factor in labour and a retune. either way does any one know for sure if both these engines are stronger than my b4 was cause that will put mine mind at ease which ever i choose ? my b4 stood up for 7 years of punishment and pain so no reason these shouldn't either hhmm 207 or 257 ?????????????????????????????????????????????
Nothing left to break .


#26 Delete This Account

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 02:09 PM

hhmm 207 or 257 ?????????????????????????????????????????????


502 Big block ;)

#27 cracka

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 03:27 PM

hhhmmm
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#28 fatcat67

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 04:21 PM

no definately want to stay with the twins, i guess i'm just trying to decide between the ej207 and ej257 as a replacement bottom end.i'm not really after anything past 200kw at all infact not sure if ill even reach that.
i just need it to stand up to a the odd track day and the odd boot.the 2.0lt sound like it is stronger and can handle a bit more boost and the 2.5 sounds lika a torque beast but i an worried about it handling the potential detonation from bad fuel
the costs can start to blow out real quick by the sounds of it so i was looking at bottom ends from half cuts, not ideal i know but maybe my only real option as with both i still have to factor in labour and a retune.
either way does any one know for sure if both these engines are stronger than my b4 was cause that will put mine mind at ease which ever i choose ?

my b4 stood up for 7 years of punishment and pain so no reason these shouldn't either


hhmm 207 or 257 ?????????????????????????????????????????????

Just keep a 2.0 in that case.
As Tony Montana would say:
In this country, you gotta make the money first.
Then when you get the money, you get the power.
Then when you get the power, then you get the women.

#29 cracka

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 09:06 PM

from wot i've been reading the 2.5 will run a lower boost and the turbo's will start to run out of puff on top end . also the turbo changeover point sounds like it will need to happen earlier as the primary will push more air more quickly. this means when daily driving short shifting will take place even earlier than normal to avoid opening the ecv to the secondary and getting stuck in the VOD. getting a price to go single tomorrow arvo, if the minister of finance is not happy with the quote i'll have to pick which bottom end i'll get real soon.
Nothing left to break .


#30 fatcat67

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 03:47 PM

Whats doing here Crack?
As Tony Montana would say:
In this country, you gotta make the money first.
Then when you get the money, you get the power.
Then when you get the power, then you get the women.

#31 cracka

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 07:25 PM

hopefully going single with an STI long block,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and tryin to sell my TT perfomance parts lol
Nothing left to break .


#32 fatcat67

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 09:48 AM

hopefully going single with an STI long block,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and tryin to sell my TT perfomance parts lol

EJ257?
Are you going to go aftermarket ECU or Factory STI?
As Tony Montana would say:
In this country, you gotta make the money first.
Then when you get the money, you get the power.
Then when you get the power, then you get the women.

#33 cracka

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 10:03 AM

ej207 with factory ecu. hopefully it all goes together o.k as there is s crap load of rewiring to be done. looking into what it would take to get my hyperflow TT tmic to fit otherwise i'll end up using the stock STI cooler. also woried about the dump pipe fitting up to my catback zorst, may need to be modified or a custom jobbie. well see i guess.
Nothing left to break .


#34 fatcat67

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 10:42 AM

ej207 with factory ecu. hopefully it all goes together o.k as there is s crap load of rewiring to be done. looking into what it would take to get my hyperflow TT tmic to fit otherwise i'll
end up using the stock STI cooler. also woried about the dump pipe fitting up to my catback zorst, may need to be modified or a custom jobbie. well see i guess.

I had a stock STI cooler on mine and it went well. Good for almost 240ATW I've read.
X-force make a stainless bell mouth dump (for GDB WRX) but I think it hung down a bit far. All you need is a mid joiner and it'll meet up, any good exhaust shop can help you out.
As Tony Montana would say:
In this country, you gotta make the money first.
Then when you get the money, you get the power.
Then when you get the power, then you get the women.

#35 ryab4-2.5l

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 10:19 PM

Hi guys, Just thought id add my experience with my b4 for future peoples bearings. i have a 00 subaru b4- Blitzen model i will add, bright red in colour with the blitzen body kit and porsche wheel matched nicely to brilant blitzen suspension). any way earlier on this year i too done a bottom end bearing,being number 4, and i struggled to sort out what to do. it came to a very lucky circumstance where i found a brand new 2.5l short motor(so run in at factory with pistons and the lot) for only $500,it was assembled at subaru in melbourne but once assembled it was found that it was droped and the part of the cast on the block where a blot for the cam cover was broken off(big whoop it was on the bottom of the engine and not in to bad a spot). either way i took part my old engine and put it all back together with new gaskets(use the two litre head gasket), easy swap over of parts mainly(remember to take the clucth fork pin out else the motor wont come off as i found). only probly with parts on the B4 is that the clutch is expensive and i had to get an exedy clutch($500 trade) and the timing belt kits generally have mixed up parts(right belt wrong pullies or viser vercer). after putting it together (and finding this absolutely strange phenominom with the oil presure on the oil filter adaptor) it starts rather fine. final look. the 2.5l block works perfectly fine(i brought it as a non turbo block to i should say) only thing like most new subaru engines the have a large amount of piston slap when cold, first time started itll slap for like 20 mins at idle. only modifications ive done have been the new block, oil filter adaptor with oil pressure gauge(fits perfectly under the cigerett lighter) and i put in an octane booster every 3 or 4 tanks(nulon works great)

#36 ryab4-2.5l

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 10:41 PM

Hi guys,
Just thought id add my experience with my b4 for future peoples bearings.
i have a 00 subaru b4- Blitzen model i will add, bright red in colour with the blitzen body kit and porsche wheel matched nicely to brilant blitzen suspension).
any way earlier on this year i too done a bottom end bearing,being number 4, and i struggled to sort out what to do.
it came to a very lucky circumstance where i found a brand new 2.5l short motor(so run in at factory with pistons and the lot) for only $500,it was assembled at subaru in melbourne but once assembled it was found that it was droped and the part of the cast on the block where a blot for the cam cover was broken off(big whoop it was on the bottom of the engine and not in to bad a spot).
either way i took part my old engine and put it all back together with new gaskets(use the two litre head gasket), easy swap over of parts mainly(remember to take the clucth fork pin out else the motor wont come off as i found).
only probly with parts on the B4 is that the clutch is expensive and i had to get an exedy clutch($500 trade) and the timing belt kits generally have mixed up parts(right belt wrong pullies or viser vercer).
after putting it together (and finding this absolutely strange phenominom with the oil presure on the oil filter adaptor) it starts rather fine.

final look. the 2.5l block works perfectly fine(i brought it as a non turbo block to i should say) only thing like most new subaru engines the have a large amount of piston slap when cold, first time started itll slap for like 20 mins at idle.
only modifications ive done have been the new block, oil filter adaptor with oil pressure gauge(fits perfectly under the cigerett lighter) and i put in an octane booster every 3 or 4 tanks(nulon works great)


i should say that to run the engine in, i let it get cold as few times as i could (so drove it all sat and all sunday). at first the first 2 hours i drove easy as youd expect with up to 50% throttle with out reving it to high(trust me above 2000rpm 50% is heaps 5000 is to much as the piston slap with let you know), trying to let it full off throttle many times(maybe give it a poke to 70% if you have it fully heated and good 98+ octane fuel).
after that driving up to 80% often and off often, best way to me to run an engine in is to try and put load on and of the rings, but not to long as youll heat them up to much.
after 4 hours your well into safe area of full throttle (i did it much ealier), try not to let it idle for long.

the piston slap for me was gradually wearing away the more i drove it(trust me the noise it made at first made me not want to drive it but it was much better later on), the higher the revs the more slap youd get, so keeping it low helps.


now bout 4 months after being put back together, being a daily driver, driven it bout 7000kms, it only slaps for 20secs when bone cold and up to a min if you dare rev it to high.



the engine thou. is amazing, puts the gear box to absolute shame because the gears feel so close, usually i go 1st ,3rd ,5th usually droping it to 2000rpm to drive, lower then that the 4cylinder still pushes hard, but shakes any lower then 1500.
the tourqe is amazing and puts most v8s to shame(not one has bet me to the speed limit yet).
as for turbo's, both tubros spool the same psi, after all you still have the same space in the valves to squeese the air through, but yeah round .7 bar on primary and .9 on secondary if that turbo's cold or up to arou 1.1 when its hot. as for 'VOD' pritty much kiss it goodbye.never feel it, sticks on the same psi until the secondary rears up and man at 1.1 when its hot it goes, you feel it imensly, usually a problem for me cause pens or usb sticks want to stay in the same spot but the car thrusts forward.
only problem you get is when you change gears just after the secondary kicks in, it can stick in twin turbo mode at 3500rpm for bout .3 to .7 of a second.

no pinging or anything wrong yet but never skip more then 3 tanks with out octane boost, no ecu tune either.

#37 legacy rsk

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 10:17 PM

engine should not have any piston slap as you say....this is how i ran my engine in http://www.mototuneu..._in_secrets.htm

1d3cb771-b699-4175-8507-6d835cbca0d8_zps


#38 B4TT

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 10:34 PM

I like your method better Shane. Method Dad tells customers once hes done an engine for them (and what I have used in the few engines I have built) is to basically run them how they will be driven, give them a few rev outs, load them from time to time in short bursts, only thing is to not let the engine overheat. works perfectly ever time, much better then keeping the revs low all the time, obviously dont just thrash it.

 


#39 legacy rsk

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 10:37 PM

I like your method better Shane.

Method Dad tells customers once hes done an engine for them (and what I have used in the few engines I have built) is to basically run them how they will be driven, give them a few rev outs, load them from time to time in short bursts, only thing is to not let the engine overheat.

works perfectly ever time, much better then keeping the revs low all the time, obviously dont just thrash it.

spot on mate and use mineral oil. the guys changed my oil after 20k, 1000k mineral oil anf the next change is at 5000k when they will use synthhetic

1d3cb771-b699-4175-8507-6d835cbca0d8_zps


#40 B4TT

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 10:40 PM

Oh yeah, I do remember Dad getting me to do something along those lines too. my first lot of oil was not synthetic.

 





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