41 replies to this topic

[El_Freddo]

Ive got cylinder one not firing on my project. Swapping the coil pack doesnt change anything and nor has swapping the spark plug for another one.

So Im looking at the injector at this point in time.

Is there any way of kick starting it back to life? Im not really wanting to pull it out as thats a PITA by the looks of things.

This is running on fresh 98RON but was sitting around for a while. Ive never had an issue with engines that have sat around for ages before. First time for everything I guess.

Any tips or tricks appreciated!

Cheers

Bennie

[Beckers]

Is it a top  or side feed injector ?

[allpaw4]

Got a photo of it Bennie? Might have easy access to one depending on what it is.

[Barbbachello]

Tap it with a screw driver handle. Can sometimes unfreeze them. Either that or try applying 12v directly to it

[El_Freddo]

Thanks Barbs, I should’ve said I’ve tried tapping it with a screw driver but there’s no change. I’ll have to do the listen trick with a long screw driver too.

Simon I believe it’s a top feed - fuel rail above the injector holding it in place like Fort Knox.

Ben, can get a pic later. It’s an injector from a series 2 SF GT Forester and it’s a blue colour if that helps!

I’ll try out the 12v jump start trick. I presume it’s 12v on the power wire side and earth on be ECU trigger wire? How long can I apply power to it before there’s no coming back from the dead?

Cheers all!

Bennie

[allpaw4]

Oh. If its a dark blue and from a GT, it'll probably be a 565cc unit, which I don't have period, let alone have spares. I've only got 550cc's on my turbo motor, pink tops.

Cheers,
Ben

[Barbbachello]

Light blue injectors are 440s iirc

[El_Freddo]

It is a dark blue injector.

It seems hitting it momentarily with 12v has it moving again. I can hear it clicking now when the engine is running but this still hasn’t solved the issue. If I disconnect the coil pack there’s no change to the engine shaking at idle.

I’ve checked continuity on all wires to the coil and they check out. Had to have the ignition on to check the power wire to the battery as that was the easiest way to do it. ECU trigger wire checks out too.

I’ve tried two different spark plugs but haven’t swapped plug from working cylinders. I think I’ll do that next. If that doesn’t change anything I’ll go down the path of checking the valve lash to ensure they’re fully closed.

Not yet done with things to look into but I’m also running out of ideas if what I’ve got doesn’t solve the issue. The ECU and engine worked perfect in the donor car, I don’t know this block or heads though and they could be the issue at the end of the day. This engine was believed to have a blown head gasket but maybe it was just valves all along - fingers and toes crossed!!

Cheers

Bennie

[allpaw4]

Could be a dead coil pack Bennie (assuming the new motor is COP that is). I've had 2 fall over on me over the years. Easy way to tell is if there appears to be any sort of white or brown marks near the steel of the coils. I know it's a hell of a read, but I'm pretty sure theres a photo of what I'm talking about in my THNKB4 thread. Would be fairly early on I suspect, but like I said, I've had 2 die, so not completely sure. They look like the coil is covered in a light dusty residue, almost just looking dirty.

Easy test if it doesn't look bad will be pull the 12V 3 pin plug on a working cylinder, and the problem should get worse. Then swap the known working coil onto your problem cylinder.
Do not run the coil packs with no plug connected or not mounted on the engine. It WILL kill off the coil pack. Ask me how I know lol 😂😆

Anyways, hopefully its an easy fix!

Cheers,
Ben

Edit: yep, photo on page 6 of THNKB4 thread.

[Barbbachello]

I could be wrong but SF GT forester should be light blue 440cc injectors. Dark blue are later model 565cc injectors. If someone has installed bigger injectors without a tune thats gonna be your issue. That said you said it was running fine so defs a gremlin somewhere

Whats the context here? You said it was a project?

[El_Freddo]

Ben, swap coil packs and the issue stays with the cylinder in question. So I’ve ruled out coil packs.

Interesting about the bolting down of the coil packs, all of mine are currently just clipped in using the holding pressure of whatever clamp force is on the spark plug.

Barbs, I’ve been waiting for this question! Probably time to come clean on what’s going on because I know you’ve been waiting for a long time with other questions I’ve asked recently (within the last two years). Context of the project:

“Destination”: Brumby
Project: SOHC turbo AWD swap
Basic details: currently setup with an EJ201 being run by the series 2 GT forester engine management with the factory turbo gear and intake etc.



Plan is to make sure it’s running properly and to know where everything will be laid out in the rusty halfcut before swapping it all over to Redback with a turbo block between the heads.

Here’s your turbo oil drain pipe Barbs - I still need to make a bracket to hold it in place. Overall I’m stoked with how it fits and works:



Gearbox will probably be a dual range box because I know how to adapt the clutch pedal without too much effort. A mate of mine has run his dual range behind his tuned EJ207 for 130,000km so far without issues - and that’s flogging it up and down Mt Dandenong on a daily basis.

Later down the track will be the five stud conversion, possibly around the same time as the drivetrain swap.

A bit more time and some coin should see this thing running well with a fresh set of rebuilt heads, MLS HGs, new seals etc and I’d like to throw a front LSD into the gearbox because they’re awesome and it’s easier to do now than later.

I hope that explains the project. Fire away with questions. Once it’s complete there will be a build thread detailing all the ins and outs about it

Cheers

Bennie

[Barbbachello]

Interesting indeed. Im inclined to say the coil packs ground via the bolt into the head so defs need to be bolted to the heads

Didnt know you could bolt a DOHC intake manifold to SOHC heads. Theyre different pattern in phase 1

[allpaw4]

The coil packs will ordinarily ground through the plug itself, but the bolt to the head stops them coming off the plug during hard cornering. If the coil comes off while firing, the ~12kV fires to the closest metal at 0V, which happens to be the laminated steel making up the coil itself.
Which is how I killed off the first coilpack I fried. Went round a left hander at decent speed, coil popped off the plug cos the bolt wasnt tight and unwound itself, and wala, one fried coilpack. Hopefully someone can learn from my cockup.

Gen3 is where they started standardising shit Nick, makes life cheaper production wise. Same gaskets, even same manifolds in some cases. Just different bolt ons like fuel rails and injectors.

So long as you're being nice to the box and have quality oil in it, it'll last. Dropping clutches, flat shifting and not rev matching will just hasten it's demise. Normally I'd say use shockproof, but recently I've seen some posts from people saying don't do it, and giving some pretty good reasons, so I'm now hesitant to say use it.

Project looks real good Bennie. Cant wait to see more of it.

Cheers,
Ben

[Barbbachello]

5 speeds seem to tolerate shock proof

6 speeds hate it due to the oil pump turning it into chalky mess.

Ive never had issues with just good quality oil in both. 5 speeds seem to benefit from a tube of Nulon G70 smooth shift stuff if you feel like it too

[El_Freddo]

Ben you’re correct about the intake bolt pattern - same same for the phase 2 engines which makes this possible.

I don’t have that coil retention issue yet but it will be sorted in good time, I just need to work out how to do it and make it look neat at the same time not that anyone will see it.

We’ll see how it turns out. It’s been a fun exercise at the very least but progresses too slowly as usual…

And on the injector front, you might be right about the blue colour not being a dark blue. Anyway, I won’t be messing with that stuff!

Cheers

Bennie

[JDP]

YOOOOO  CAN DOOOOOO  EEEEET!!!

 

Fix it Bennie!

[El_Freddo]

Valve clearances checked and its all good on that front. Spark plug swapped with cylinder 3 that was known to be good. Not a spark plug issue.

Now it comes down to either the injector or low compression on cylinder 1 - the cooling system is pressurising quickly from the start of the engine when cold.

With the swapped spark plug theres still no apparent action on cylinder 1 so Im about ready to put it down to the engine having a dead head gasket on this cylinder. Its only a test mule so Im not overly fussed but I am concerned at the possibility of this issue persisting once the turbo block and HGs are swapped.

Is there a possibility of the ECU having an issue with cylinder 1? Whats the best practice to test the coil pack signal from the ECU at the coil pack?

Thats where Im at for now. Im thinking of swapping injector 1 & 3 to see if the issue moves but my gut says it wont. Im looking at grabbing a compression tester from work tomorrow if I remember so I can do a test on each cylinder. Hopefully thatll come back with a definite answer as to whats going on.

Cheers

Bennie

[duncanm]

Best oil I've found for the 5MT is Penrite synthetic (pro gear GL5). I was really surprised how much better it is. No cold baulking.

 

My dual range seems to have held up fine - 350k and counting. 150k of those behind a '208

[Barbbachello]

Best oil I've found for the 5MT is Penrite synthetic (pro gear GL5). I was really surprised how much better it is. No cold baulking.

 

 

This is what i run in my 6 speed. Is good stuff

[RX25SE]

Have you done a compression test Bennie?

 

From what you've said so far about swapping coils and plugs, I'd also rule out ignition system at this point.

 

If it wasn't a Subaru, I'd suggesting investigating the injector a bit more before moving to the HG but I have a feeling that may be the issue. Does the miss-fire change or disappear if you increase the revs or engine load?