53 replies to this topic

[mulligan]

Hello,



I got a barely used SYMS Exhaust manifold from a friend who is moving into VF22 territory with his b4 on this sysmtem as far as I know, it doesn't seem to take 2turbo exhaust? So is this running the twins as parallels?

Can anyone help me understand before I install this, is this the same twin system but only faster spool and maybe less VOD? Or is this running both in parallel with the added help of quicker spool time?

my car is bone stock aside from a fujitsubo legalis r 2.5 full exhaust pipe....


This is the header in question:

http://www.rhdjapan....bh-legacy-60899

Since I'm not retunning my ECU as is impossible, should I still install it?

I will be installing the downpipe system that comes with this as well, I really despise the VOD because all the power is just at the top end, I don't see how this system could produce MASSIVE lag, as its making faster spool possible by using larger diameters tubes, which to some degree, should compensate for the parallel set up.

The Ecu goes along merrily thinking is a twin set up, so I don't think is going to be making a fuzz of the ECU systems.



In a nutshell, is it worh it? has anyone installed one and care to share his/her experience with it??


much appreciated!!

All I want is linear power response and not screw around with the black box of death!!





EDIT: Page 2 review

[buzzda]

Wow, that's one confusing post.

[acres]

Theses headers are designed to eliminate the sequential system. Designed for top end power only they convert your car to parrellel and even out the exhaust pulses to each turbine to reduce the boost threshold (lag if you will) to an acceptable level. Should just bolt straight up however the IC valve will need to be jammed open permanently and the secondary bypass valve will need to blocked off. Or just get some new piping, front mount, etc. Expect a late spool, similar to a large single, but should go like the clappers when it hits. A custom tune would be strongly advised to not only get the most benefit but to stop the ecu from having a heartattack and spewing out code 66 constantly.

You might hate VOD but I reckon you will probably hate 4000rpm of lag even more

These headers are great for the track but probably not so practical on the street.

[mulligan]

Theses headers are designed to eliminate the sequential system. Designed for top end power only they convert your car to parrellel and even out the exhaust pulses to each turbine to reduce the boost threshold (lag if you will) to an acceptable level. Should just bolt straight up however the IC valve will need to be jammed open permanently and the secondary bypass valve will need to blocked off. Or just get some new piping, front mount, etc. Expect a late spool, similar to a large single, but should go like the clappers when it hits. A custom tune would be strongly advised to not only get the most benefit but to stop the ecu from having a heartattack and spewing out code 66 constantly.

You might hate VOD but I reckon you will probably hate 4000rpm of lag even more

These headers are great for the track but probably not so practical on the street.

Sorry for the confusing post, but I was on a hurry. While yes, there will be some lag, as far as I know this header system will compensate by running larger length/diameter tubes (and replacing the upipes), while I wont have the quick spool of a twin turbo system, I will have what is essentially a paralel set up.

Also be aware that I will be installing Syms downpipes as well and some other bits to compensate engine response.

I'm looking for decent boost at about 3,500 RPMS

So do you think is worth it from a power view?

[mulligan]

Sorry for the confusing post, but I was on a hurry. While yes, there will be some lag, as far as I know this header system will compensate by running larger length/diameter tubes (and replacing the upipes), while I wont have the quick spool of a twin turbo system, I will have what is essentially a paralel set up.

Also be aware that I will be installing Syms downpipes as well and some other bits to compensate engine response.

I'm looking for decent boost at about 3,500 RPMS

So do you think is worth it from a power view?

I don't want to loose reliability as well as driveability... the car is running 15.7 in the 1/4 mile as it stands and the twins have never been reliable with sporadic boost.


What do you think? the previous owner said that he had full boost from 3,400 -3200 RPM, I'm looking for automatic WRX level type performance.

[legacy rsk]

Just do a single conversion

[buzzda]

Shoot Billsy a PM... he's pretty much known as the TT guru round the forums.

[mulligan]

Just do a single conversion

Well, doing single is not something I want to do, is a road I don't really wanna go and I thought that perhaps this will be an OK alternative, I bought the manifold for free basically, I'd just like to hear someone's experiences on it, if it made the car worse, did it bring an ealry death to engine, was it consuming massively more fuel, etc...

[acres]

Larger diameter tubes will contribute to lag, not compensate for it. Driveability will definately be lost for most day to day driving and I really can't see it working reliably without a custom tune.
Perhaps consider a custom tune for your current setup. More power than standard, less VOD and retain drivability and reliabilty. Everybody with B4's seem to be happy with their cars after a tune.

[mulligan]

I can't do a tune because:

A) There are no specialized subaru shops here .... not even for WRX's... everything in this little piece of paradise is R33/Evo/Supra/RX7, (I believe we have the fastest street legal R33 in the american continent 9.8-9.6 while still having A/C and power steering) so they are baffled by the B4, and remapping seems to be limited to a certain ECU on a certain B4, (mine is a 99' MY.. probably non flashable)... and while I have access to a Razo pre-tuned ECU I think is also unflashable... I'd have to check that as it could be a viable alternative....

Full stand alone ECU such as an e-mange ultimate is too costly... the only reason I'm pondering this instalation is that it's free... I will be paying only installation.

I apologize if I seem a bit narrow minded and your comments are GREATLY appreciated, and if all I have to loose is 1,000 rpm of boost while gaining on the top and middle end, it seems a fair trade, my only concern is this thing screwing around firing order/sensors/ ECU forcing the car into limp mode
because of the code 66 heart attack....


This is a rough translation from the SYMS japanese website



Primary (primary), turbo secondary (secondary) in order to eliminate turbo lag switching, twin turbo system change at any time, system is low lag since Energy efficiently in order to send a turbo exhaust cylinder # 1 and # 2 cylinder has a cylinder will set the third and fourth cylinders. Or tube diameter, the diameter of thin tubes that have resistance to the exhaust, the exhaust flow rate is increased keeping turbo delay minimal. For keeping smooth ties with the engine exhaust port, has flange air funnel shape.

Subaru's EX manifold, exhaust port span in order to absorb the change in thermal expansion, "Suribufuranji" is required. Adopted a three tiered slip joint in order to have both of the exhaust gas tightness and high durability.

[buzzda]

Do it... and let us know how it goes. Would be an easy DIY.

[acres]

Sorry mate didn't realise your location, does make it a bit hard to get a good tune then. But in saying that your car should be flashable as it should have obd2 connector.
If you wanted to trial a parallel setup before switching out the headers you can. Just have to re-route a few of the vac lines from the black box. Is easy to do (and free) and will give a feel of how it may respond. I have tried it with mine just to see how it responds but to be honest I personally didn't like it, just too laggy for heavy traffic driving. Plus the ecu had a coronary.

[acres]

One other thing if you do decide to fit these, boost control will probably be an issue. My car seemed unable to control boost and I couldn't take it past 6500rpm for fear of it breaking. Highest recorded peak was 1.6 bar. Don't ask me how it didn't pop...

[Alex]

parallel turbo conversion is a voodoo science that would be unreliable and detrimental to your engine.

I mean, one smaller turbo on one bank, on larger turbo on the other?


single and be done with it.

[mulligan]

Well I spoke with a SYMS previous owner who did the SYMS header conversion and he had this to say:


" I had full boost at 3400 RPM, and had it controlled at 11-12 psi, it sounded like a rally car with angry bees ...as equal length headers tend to do, I missed the rumble sound and that's about it, I even had a front mount intercooler set up, yes it will never be as responsive as a sequential set up, BUT MY GOD after 3XXX rpm it would erupt with power.... I'm sure that a few of the bits I had compensated it, but you are not only running top mount which is even less laggy, but 2.5.... I remember running the manifold set up at 5 psi, front mount and full 3' exhaust and making a 14.9 with a blown clutch... is really not bad in DD... however if you can tune it... it will be as reiable as wood burning stove"

Sorry mate didn't realise your location, does make it a bit hard to get a good tune then. But in saying that your car should be flashable as it should have obd2 connector.
If you wanted to trial a parallel setup before switching out the headers you can. Just have to re-route a few of the vac lines from the black box. Is easy to do (and free) and will give a feel of how it may respond. I have tried it with mine just to see how it responds but to be honest I personally didn't like it, just too laggy for heavy traffic driving. Plus the ecu had a coronary.

Do you have a guide with on how to flash the b4's obd2 ecu???


Again you guys are great and I appreciate all your help!

[buzzda]

Well I spoke with a SYMS previous owner who did the SYMS header conversion and he had this to say:


" I had full boost at 3400 RPM, and had it controlled at 11-12 psi,.... BUT MY GOD after 3XXX rpm it would erupt with power....

Lol, sorry dude but @ 11-12psi a B4 would be a pig...

Lose all boost 1500-3400 to get 4 psi less boost 1000rpm earlier.... seems like a pretty bad comprimise if you ask me.

[Richo]

ignore "boost" and look at it from an air flow PoV (CFM). I'm running less boost now, but shoving a crap load more air into the car mmm bigger turbo.

To the OP, this might point you in the direction of tuning

http://www.tactrix.com/
http://forums.openecu.org/

I'm with Alex "one smaller turbo on one bank, on larger turbo on the other" yeah.. what now...

[acres]

Do you have a guide with on how to flash the b4's obd2 ecu???

Take car and credit card to a reliable tuner and say "please sir, may you tune my car".

Apparently it is doable as a DIY but I wouldn't have a clue on how to do it, computers baffle me as it is.

I reckon this mod would be useless if you plan on just running 11psi boost.

[legacy rsk]

My98-00 can't be reflashed. You how ever use a haltec piggy back.

[B4TT]

My98-00 can't be reflashed. You how ever use a haltec piggy back.

So basically just the Rev D and Rev E that can be reflashed?