77 replies to this topic

[Tom]

Okay, just for my knowledge.. I'm always tempted to throw money at my car, but never know where to really go with it!

I'm not sure if I want to travel more, buy a second investment property, or dump cash in to my car next year, but if I decide to go the car path can you guys help me out with figuring out a good path to go?

At the moment the only power mods my car has:
TurboXS piggy back ECU with a tune and bleed valve
CES Dual dump and 3" exhaust

If I want to bring out more power, where should I head next?

It also has a heavy duty clutch and a short shifter
The car came with King Springs, Whiteline Sways and Struts.. I like how comfortable the car is at the moment, so I don't want to go back down the Coilovers path again..
The wheels are purely cosmetic, I'd like JDM style ones but would rather aim my money elsewhere first up!
Stereo is fine..

[BigWillieStyles]

How much power has the car dynoed with just the tune and exhaust?

How about upgrading the intercooler with either a decent top mount or a front mount.

[Tom]

Think I'll stay away from a front mount, as I've been told that top mounts work better.. Less distance for the air to flow, etc

And I thought the STI top mounts were pretty decent anyway? But that's an idea!

With just the exhaust and the tune (I don't know who did the tuning) it was dyno'd at 179.5kw atw.. But the stock dyno was 135kw atw? I thought that was heaps low.. So I'm not sure if it was a crap dyno, or if these things really aren't that powerful from factory! I have no comparisons to go on..

[buzzda]

STi TMIC's are good, pretty sure they outperform alot of aftermarket ones.

Turbo upgrade?

*edit* just had a quick geez at a ChipTorque graph of an 02 STi was 158 stock and 188 with zorst and tune

[Soop]

They're not really that powerful from the factory.

Definatly go with a FMIC, Heat soak is chronic with top mounts, I mean its sitting right on top of the motor and turbo. FMIC is better all round.

[Tom]

Is heat soak really that bad on these?

[ams]

Is heat soak really that bad on these?

No. Not as bad as Soop says, he likes to be dramatic.

There are advantages and disadvantages to the whole tmic/fmic debate.

FMIC are better because they can stay cooler, avoid heatsoak etc....but you do lose a bit of throttle response seeing as the air has to travel further.

TMIC are better because you don't loose any of your throttle response - but yes, as discussed you can suffer from heatsoak if you sit still for extended periods of time (ie. at traffic lights/in traffic). Waterspray can help, but it's really not as terrible as it's being made out to be.

Ultimately if you want a lot of power, FMIC is the way to go. If you're not planning on running big boost, an aftermarket (not stock) TMIC will do you fine.

[buzzda]

The bigger scoop on the STi's also helps.

[Alex]

Many LOLs in this thread.

How about the people that have had both TMIC and FMIC comment on the subject? Else people are jus bouncing Internet heresy garbage and ZOMGTEHNEWBZ get upset.

It goes without saying or question.

FMIC is better than TMIC.

Proven time and time again. On the street, strip and dyno.

It's better. Difference is day and night.

[ams]

Ultimately if you want a lot of power, FMIC is the way to go.

FMIC is better than TMIC.

[Soop]

Many LOLs in this thread.

How about the people that have had both TMIC and FMIC comment on the subject? Else people are jus bouncing Internet heresy garbage and ZOMGTEHNEWBZ get upset.

It goes without saying or question.

FMIC is better than TMIC.

Proven time and time again. On the street, strip and dyno.

It's better. Difference is day and night.

Thank you.
Have FMIC, is better. Any genius can see why.

TMIC is rally homologation, because they tend to rip the front of the car off. (used to be for homologation anyway, probably just stuck because its cheap. Anyone ever wondered why EVERY other car has at least a side mount intercooler from the factory?)

[Tom]

Thanks for pointing all that out guys

That's been something that I've heard come up often, but no one ever has much of a reason why! You guys seem to have justified that well

So, as well as FMIC, what else should I consider?

Not looking for HUGE numbers, just something more than the 179kw atw I have now

[buzzda]

Many LOLs in this thread.

How about the people that have had both TMIC and FMIC comment on the subject? Else people are jus bouncing Internet heresy garbage and ZOMGTEHNEWBZ get upset.

It goes without saying or question.

FMIC is better than TMIC.

Proven time and time again. On the street, strip and dyno.

It's better. Difference is day and night.

So my B4 with 194kwatw with a topmount and didn't have any problems with heatsoak is internet garbage?

No-one said they were better than FM's anyway, just that they're capable.

[Soop]

Is it 2ltr or 2.5ltr?
I can't remember what got where and why any more.

Bigger turbo would probably be a goer. Less heat for the same PSI.

So my B4 with 194kwatw with a topmount and didn't have any problems with heatsoak is internet garbage?

No-one said they were better than FM's anyway, just that they're capable.

Who cares what it does on a dyno, How much power do you think you loose after driving it for an hour and sitting in traffic?

They probably flow perfectly well. But they don't cool any where near as well as a FMIC. And that's what you're looking for, cold air. Not lots of air.
So many people just try to force more air into the engine. (Zomg 20psi bruuu) Pressure is only an indication of resistance. The more heat you generate the higher the volume, more pressure but the same concentration of O2, which is what your engine wants to run.
Turn the boost pressure down (heretic?) cool the charge appropriately and see the same end result while using less fuel and increasing the longevity of your motor.

This is why trying to force 20psi out of a tiny little B4 secondary doesn't make much sense, it can still only move so much air, after a point its just super heating the charge.

[buzzda]

Is it 2ltr or 2.5ltr?
Who cares what it does on a dyno, How much power do you think you loose after driving it for an hour and sitting in traffic?

04's were still 2.0lt.

No one cares what it does on a dyno, is just an indication. Point was, it was at the limit of what you can get out of a B4 whilst still using twins and had no problem with heatsoak. Walts has said on many occasions he doesn't have a prob with heatsoak either.
TBH I couldn't feel a difference no matter how much I drove it. Even last summer, 40+deg couldn't feel a difference 5 (if it was already warmed up) or 50 mins into a drive, but sitting in traffic isn't a problem here.

Again I'm not saying a front mount isn't better. I'm not saying a TMIC won't suffer heatstroke (see what I did there ) sitting in traffic for an hour. Just that I had no probs with heatsoak with a top mount and that the TMIC that he has may just do the job that he needs it too and thus save him the hassle.

[Soop]

Here's the thing, go drive a car with a FMIC through traffic on a 40c day and you'll see what we mean. (Zomg thermofans on the FMIC too even!?)

[buzzda]

Hahaha, I don't doubt for a second that a front mount would be better in traffic, but have a look at my sig, see much traffic? It wasn't a 1-off trip for a pretty pic.

[buzzda]

Soop/Alex/anyone, genuine question.

Which would provided the best bang for buck upgrade?

Upgrading the turbo and keeping the TMIC, or

Stock turbo with FMIC?

[Scuba-Roo]

Micheal South does a pretty cool Y pipe that makes the TMIC more efficient, and a dump pipe spliter that helps too.

A mate is running 225kw@w on a stock STI intercooler. So i'd think your's would be alright for a little while.

have you got a silicon intake pipe? or looked at Equal lenght headers?

[Alex]

stock turbo and FMIC.