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#1 Dylan

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 10:35 PM

Hi all,

Thought I'd share my fantastic tales of clutch problems with you all, to possibly get some advice or at least to help out any of you that might be unlucky enough to have this problem in the future.

It first started with a noise.

Clutch disengaged I would hear a noise coming from the clutch assembly area. It was a metallic clicking noise, which increased with RPM. Once the pedal was released, and the clutch was engaged there was no noise. This I believe was caused by a dirty / stuffed throw out bearing (or thrust bearing), this item wasn't new when I last had the clutch changed and to me it seemed as though this was the only cause of this noise. I also noted that when I decelerated in gear (engine braked, if you will) that there was also a noise, hard to describe actually, but a grinding whirring kind of noise, which was loudest in 2nd and 3rd. This got worse with time, as did the 'clicking' type noise.

I was not having ANY issues with the clutch for a long time, and then it progressively got a little harder to change gear, then got worse. It got to the point where with the clutch pedal fully depressed, I could barely get it in to 1st and reverse, then one night it let go, and I could not change gear at all unless I RPM matched (no clutch required).

At this point, the pedal still felt normal, all fluids OK and no strange noises. I have burst a clutch line before and I know what happens when you do that (pedal stays on the ground). I had no funny spots on the pedal or anything, completely fine and could not get gears.

I tried a few things, one of which was to start the car (cold) in gear, with the clutch pedal in. Doing this worked fine, but once I took it out of gear and tried to put in gear again, it would fail and I would just crunch gears.

Anyway, from there I have done the following:

- Replaced throw out bearing
- Bled clutch system
- Replaced master cylinder
- Bled clutch system
- Observed clutch fork travel

All went OK, clutch fork moves OK and looks fine (not bent or damaged). The travel of the fork seems to be normal (20 to 30mm going by eye), and I have re-aligned the pin on the cylinder to the clutch fork. I believe the selector fork in the gearbox is fine, as I can get gears without an issue whilst the car is off, or when I RPM match. The two remaining things are:

- Slave cylinder
- Physical clutch problem (clutch plate fused to pressure plate, or physically damaged component of the clutch or pressure plate).

Now slave cylinder I will be replacing as soon as I can source one, and I really am hoping that it is the cause. I firmly believed that the master was the culprit, as when I wedged something between the slave cylinder pin and the clutch fork (10mm) the clutch pedal went all the way to the ground and clutch would not 'fully' disengage (if at all). From the information I was given, doing this (reducing the slave cylinder travel) would result in the clutch pedal not depressing 100%, but perhaps this is wrong. I am not totally sure on the symptoms of a shagged slave cylinder, all the information I can really find on clutch problems are related to burst lines / air pockets etc.. So if nothing else, hopefully this will serve as some information for someone in the future.

If anyone has any suggestions I would love to hear them, otherwise I will let you know once I have swapped the slave cylinder and report on the situation. Unfortunately, if that is not successful, the gearbox will have to come out and might be time for a new clutch and pressure plate :(

Dylan

#2 RX25SE

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 07:09 AM

Dylan,

Your pressure plate has collapsed.

When you throw the clutch, the pressure plate cannot release enough and it is dragging the clutch plate around. This is causing the input shaft of the gearbox to continue rotating making the gears crunchy.

It would have been wise to fit a NEW clutch assembly (including pilot bearing) when you replaced the thrust bearing.

Does the clutch feel a little softer or 'springyer' than normal? Will it slip if you flat change into 3rd or 4th?

I would say you need a new clutch. Do it soon as this problem will cause the gearbox synchros and sleeves to wear very quickly.

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#3 CodeBurn3r

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 07:26 AM

Yeah sounds like pressure plate to me too, slave cylinder thing your talking about is normal Dylan,

best prank around lol pop bonnet when working on mates car, press slave cyl pin with finger a few mm and when someone presses the clutch it just dropps to the floor, all you need to do is pull pedal up and then everything is fine again (just builds pressure again)

when i did my Head Gasket in 08 i replaced clutch AND pressure plate, after that everyone comments how hard my clutch pedal is. there is the normal pedal spring but then you can feel when you are forcing the pressure plate back.

i think i paid $380 for new clutch kit (exceedy) from repco. came with pressure plate, clutch disc, and throwout bearing.
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#4 Dylan

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 02:50 PM

Dylan,

Your pressure plate has collapsed.

When you throw the clutch, the pressure plate cannot release enough and it is dragging the clutch plate around. This is causing the input shaft of the gearbox to continue rotating making the gears crunchy.

It would have been wise to fit a NEW clutch assembly (including pilot bearing) when you replaced the thrust bearing.

Does the clutch feel a little softer or 'springyer' than normal? Will it slip if you flat change into 3rd or 4th?

I would say you need a new clutch. Do it soon as this problem will cause the gearbox synchros and sleeves to wear very quickly.


Yeah, it does feel a little springer or softer - I had thought that. Mate the car is not being driven, and has not since this became an issue.

The thing that puzzles me is - how did this gradually happen? I would have thought it would be fine one day, bad the next ??

And yeah, I know it would have been a good idea for new clutch + pressure plate, but the current ones are 10,000k's old if that and are Exedy...

Pilot bearing the spigot bearing?


Yeah sounds like pressure plate to me too, slave cylinder thing your talking about is normal Dylan,

best prank around lol pop bonnet when working on mates car, press slave cyl pin with finger a few mm and when someone presses the clutch it just dropps to the floor, all you need to do is pull pedal up and then everything is fine again (just builds pressure again)

when i did my Head Gasket in 08 i replaced clutch AND pressure plate, after that everyone comments how hard my clutch pedal is. there is the normal pedal spring but then you can feel when you are forcing the pressure plate back.

i think i paid $380 for new clutch kit (exceedy) from repco. came with pressure plate, clutch disc, and throwout bearing.


Hahaha that's a good prank ! Yeah, I am going to have to shop around, I am after Exedy HD to throw in there... Just need to work out if my gearbox or motor comes out... It's all too hard.

Thanks for info Jason and Ty, really wanting to get her back on the road (the astra I am driving around is a mega butt nugget).

Dylan

#5 Soop

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 02:54 PM

Only the gearbox dude, you can do everything on the engine side with it in.
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#6 Dylan

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 06:21 PM

Yeah I know Soop, more a question of which is less hard to do, I've done both and did the engine when the thrust bearing was replaced... They are both a pain but think I will go with taking the gearbag out this time :(

#7 Alex

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 06:23 PM

Dylan.

How new is the clutch?

Maybe a new clutch kit is in order?

#8 Dylan

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 06:49 PM

10,000K's if that mate, yeah a new kit is in order. I will be fitting a new Exedy HD kit.

Apparently markmcrs can do kits, but Jimbo didn't mention whether they were Exedy ones or not? Got any hookups ? If I could get one this weekend I could do it all, at this stage though I am happy to remove the box and leave it till I can get my hands on one..

#9 Soop

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 09:41 PM

depending on room, it might be easier to drop the motor and gearbox, then just lift the front. If you can get under it, def the gearbox.
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#10 Alex

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 01:29 AM

Mark does the Exedy ones.
ask for a HD one.

profit.

#11 RX25SE

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 08:19 PM

Dylan,

I do gearbox out.......on a hoist, so not really like most would tackle it.

Pilot and spigot...same.





Alex,

Why HD?
Are we talking big horsepower/torque here?

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#12 Scuba-Roo

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 09:00 PM

I've always taken the gearbox out, i dont have a hoist, just car stands and use a trolley jack to lower and lift the gearbox.

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#13 CodeBurn3r

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 09:52 PM

if i was using a hoist then box out is a no brainer.. but on the ground, i think engine out is easier... but thats just me, i have taken engines out too many times now so its too quick for me.. and i have all the tools/equipment to do it.
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#14 Alex

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 11:28 PM

Jase,

Doesn't have to be HD I guess.

At least that way, it can act like a fuse.



Especially after seeing how Dylan drives his car... :diablo:

#15 Dylan

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 12:19 AM

Bahaha, jase no major power, standard early wrx now with td05, moving to something wirh a big more power soon, but will be happy if i can get 200 at wheels which will be still a few mods away... I really like the heavy pedal feel of current pressure plate, it's not a daily so i don't want a sponge!

#16 alexGT

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 08:04 AM

exedy clutches are known for their off throttle rattle. OEM kit is the way to go if you want a quiet clutch.

http://www.rexnet.co...tle-solved-p19/

HD is overkill even with 200kw atw, esp with a early wrx box you are just increasing your chances for busting a box.

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#17 Alex

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 08:29 AM

I'm not convinced.

I have a Exedy HD.

Mine NEVER rattled in the three years its been in.

#18 alexGT

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 09:41 AM

I'm not convinced.

I have a Exedy HD.

Mine NEVER rattled in the three years its been in.


i'm not saying its all of them, the one in my old wagon didn't rattle and i put 30k on it.

but my brother's has only just started rattling after 25-30k, and i personally know of another 3 with the 7123 kit that rattle.

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#19 Alex

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 09:44 AM

i'm not saying its all of them, the one in my old wagon didn't rattle and i put 30k on it.

but my brother's has only just started rattling after 25-30k, and i personally know of another 3 with the 7123 kit that rattle.


Have they started to outsource the manufacture of the clutch plates and pressure plates?

on the rexnet thread you posted, there's a clear cut difference in quality between the two.

I'll be replacing my *clutch soon. With a six speed unit.







*along with the gearbox

#20 alexGT

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 09:46 AM

Have they started to outsource the manufacture of the clutch plates and pressure plates?

on the rexnet thread you posted, there's a clear cut difference in quality between the two.

I'll be replacing my *clutch soon. With a six speed unit.

*along with the gearbox


would be interesting to see, as the one in my wagon was done in like 06 i think? when was yours installed?

brothers was done prob 18 months ago tops.

MY07 GT spec B

 





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