37 replies to this topic

[Judgeme]

So basically, like anyone with a N/A Suby, I was curious at what mods I could do for my car. I was thinking of getting UEL Headers just to get that boxer sound so I did some emailing just to get an idea for costs. I emailed MRT Performance and they said “DO NOT GET UEL Headers” and sent the following to me, so I thought I would share it to all those with N/A Cars.

Power upgrade guide for normally aspirated Subaru engines

We get many calls for upgrades on this model, as a guide to assist you we have created this list to save your time, guarantee your money is invested correctly and most of all give you maximum value!.

ECU
Can not be reflashed or tuned for any improvement, zero value here, ECU is a old design and inherently allows no improvement.

INTERCEPTOR OPTION
Unless you have MASSIVE mods, and or a custom build engine the same applies to ECU above.
ZERO VALUE

NEW ECU
As the engine is relatively high comp, there iss very little to gain here. OK if you want to invest over $3000 in a motec or similar ECU then you will get some advantages, but frankly, for this $$ you are better investing it elsewhere!

EXHAUST
Engine pipe with long secondary pipes to add torque is the only value, 5 - 15 kw and up to 50 Nm can be gained, with the correct complete design.
WRX systems barely fit and only reduce back pressure and engine response with no increase in power.
A free flowing exhaust from cat back will sound louder but add no power.

AIR INTAKE
Other than a horrible intake noise no power here either.
MRT used to supply and fit ram pod style intakes, but with technology and recent testing and on the later models these were made redundant
A replacement panel filter in the std airbox will save on future servicing but give no power improvement.

ENGINE ANCILLIARIES
Items such as aftermarket plug leads, high capacity discharge ignition systems etc all will ad very marginal if any improvement.

INJECTORS
Bigger injectors empty your wallet and add no power. Save your $$ for suspension and get some GOOD improvements.

TURBO
OK if you have big bucks a turbo upgrade will add power, but really, why not just buy a WRX!
To turbo the NA engine you need a minimum $7000 to do a half decent job and still its not where near like a WRX
Internal engine mods are then needed for reliability.

ENGINE INTERNAL
OK like above if you have wads of cash, thena rebuild will give some benefits, but a rebuild will cost over $5k and then you need to choose carefully.

OTHER OPTIONS
Is the car serviced correctly because often a service by a workshop who really knows subarus will be your best place for power.

IE:
•Upper engine cleaner and in tank fuel additive. (when was this last done, its a subaru suggested option).
•Good quality low friction engine oil such as Mobil 5 w 30 will give around 5 kw and better fuel economy over a non synthetic oil.
•Fuel system service, MRT offer this and often get good results, cleans the EGR "gunk" out of the intake and combustion area. Also injectors as well as inlet manf and exhaust as well as fuel pump, lines and sensors.
•Synthetic trans and diff oil, again like engine oil this adds up in benefits.
•Timing belt, fuel filter are again areas that should be checked and renewed.

SUSPENSION
check out the performance / suspension section for REAL gains and benefits.
If I owned a NA suby, I would invest my budget in brakes and suspension as this is guaranteed BEST VALUE!
more here http://mrtperformanc...ance/suspension

FREE CHECK
Refer the MRT vehicle service section here and take advantage of our free 78 point check to ensure your car is in top shape!

[Judgeme]

I also took my car for its first service on Saturday (12500) and i must say before the service it was feeling a little on the sluggish side and less responsive, but after the service its running fine again and gave me a subaru fuel additive to put into the fule in another 6000km to help keep the preformance between services.

Also I had problems with my gearbox, for some reason every now and again it would struggle to go into reverse, or when dropping gears it felt like there was heaps of resistance (even though the clutch is pressed to the floor) so basically I have to drop my car back to them on Wed so their Sti team can have a look at it. Only problem is that they will have the car for a few days to pull it apart….ill let u guys know what happens.

[Judgeme]

also this is what MRT stated for suspension mods, they also recommend to install these mods in this order.

WHY these parts and how do they change my car?:
•Sway bars reduce body roll but do not effect ride quality.
•Springs control the ride height of a car and do effect ride quality.
•Shocks control spring bump and rebound and do effect ride quality.
•Bush';s and alignment parts sharpen the chasiss response and have varied effects on noise (NVH) and ride quality. See notes.
•Braces, stiffen the chassis for improved handling and dont effect ride quality.

[Morgan]

Any reason you went to MRT?

That was probably your first problem!

[Judgeme]

Any reason you went to MRT?

That was probably your first problem!

Only reason was cuz I was at work and it was too easy to send an email just to get an idea for price and they seemed alright, why are they so Sh**

[Alex]

Only reason was cuz I was at work and it was too easy to send an email just to get an idea for price and they seemed alright, why are they so Sh**

They're known for ripping off customers stupendous amounts in terms of the work they allegedly do (but don't), and the astronomical prices they charge.


They're internationally famous for this.

[Xon]

Wow, reading that breakdown has only confirmed all the bad things I've heard about MRT...

[Scuba-Roo]

Told ya the other day anyone with half a brain stays away from MRT.

5kw more from using their recommended oil? Surely that has to seem a little funny to you?


They have their suspension mods around the wrong way too.

You'd be replacing the bushes, and tyres first. Theirs absolutely no point in upgrading any suspension parts if your gonna leave old work out bushes in their, and run $30 tyres.

I think you'd be surprised at how much better your car would handle with decent semi slicks.

And then sway bars
And then shocks and springs.
And then braces.

Feel free to correct me but that's the order I'd be doing it.


Did they change the gearbox oil with the correct spec one? Bleed out your clutch and replace them fluids?

Pretty much ever Subaru I've come across isn't a fan of going in reverse. So I've always put the car in 4th gear and then into reverse and never have problems. That doesn't explain why it's hard to go down gears. I had similar problems in my gen1 and it was the clutch pivot arm that had broke.


But I'm sure MRT will Bodge something up for you, then charge you a kidney and lung for it.


I know someone who had their bug STI modded by MRT they spend around $1300 on a diff back muffler and an ecutek tune. Few days later and it's blown a piston. Maybe the car did have a fault with the fuel system or ignition before hand. But I'd like to think a reputable workshop would either refuse to tune a faulty car or notify the owner of the problem.

[4rstr]

i thought the NA ecu can be reflashed. least it can be done on 01+ foresters, so i'd assume the others which changed after this date are able to be as well. although it is expensive but can get up to about 20kwatw gains.
dont mrt only do ecutek and then lock it so it cant be changed except by them? hence saying it cant be reflashed .

[aekOne]

oem ecu tuning depends on what year your car is. old ecu's can't be tuned or flashed, newer ones can

[Judgeme]

Scuba-roo,
Don't worry I am staying far clear from MRT as I said it was only an email,
As for the gearbox, I was just assuming it was a bit stiff cuz it was a new gearbox. Sometimes the only way I can put it in reverse without smashing it in there is to put it in fourth. But yeah when changing gears sometimes there is just a bit of resistant and it just feels heaps rough as if thegears are going to crunch but they never do. Anyway the guy from the service centre had a quick look at the engine while I was pressing the clutch in and out, and he just said yeah it's not right u will have to bring it in during the week, so I'll see what they say

[AussieTemplar]

MRT, apart from a few obvious flaws, did do a good job at explaining that there is no amount of money that could be spent that would help to make your NA suby go any quicker, and indeed, the only real things you can do is to do with handling and suspension.

[Russell85]

Im in the same boat as judge me.

Where do you buy the fuel additive?
i have a 06 3.0rb. can these be re tuned? how much $$$

[Russell85]

How did you go with your upgrades judge me?

[alexGT]

yes the 3.0 can be ref lashed with decent results. liberty.asn.au there are a few cars on that site that have had it done. i know of one personally that got around 150kw atw with mufflers and flash tune.

[Matt]

Im in the same boat as judge me.

Where do you buy the fuel additive?
i have a 06 3.0rb. can these be re tuned? how much $$$

Furl additive from subaru, or there is some places that do sell it a tad cheaper

[Jordan]

They're known for ripping off customers stupendous amounts in terms of the work they allegedly do (but don't), and the astronomical prices they charge.


They're internationally famous for this.

Charged a Mate $4900 for a new BOV, and ecu reflash.

[Matt]

And he paid it?

[implanted4]

you can do mods to see decent gains from an na motor, but you are spending lots for relatively little gain compared to a drop in turbo conversion from a similar era sube. N/A motors have been modded for good cgains in all kinds of cars, just because its a suby doesnt mean you cant do it, just be prepared to be disappointed when you start comparing to turbo cars..

but for those who really want power from an N/A the following is the way to do it:

Heads.. keep std valves but get a good 3 angle regrind. Get the heads ported properly, and match port the inlet and throttle body, every bit of airflow counts.

Cams: a good set of cams will help. Turbo grinds wont really be much use, and im not sure what cam profiles exist for N/A subes, but a rebuild of std cams can be worthwhile. add a couple mm lift and change the ramp up for quicker valve opening and closing. vernier cam wheels can be used to change lobe centre separation. duration.. not sure wether that can be added during the cam regrind, probably. A profile to suit making power from 3500 - 7000 for a high compression 4 cyl will work. youll likely need a set of uprated valve springs, collets and retainers.

pistons: a quality set of hypereutectic cast pistons with compression around 10.5 - 11:1, or possibly even higher. youll be limited to 98ron fuel at these compression ratios.. can go forged, but unless you push the envelope, they arent going to get the punishment to need forged..

rods: a set of std ej20T rods will do, maybe shot peened and cryo treated for good measure. Std rods are good for easy 250kw in a turbo though (flywheel)

exhaust: equal tuned length headers and a good 2.25 system will work here. dont need to go bigger, gas velocity is what we want.

ecu: anything modern will do the trick.. a vipec entry level plug and play is perfect for $2k tuned

injectors ; grab a set of turbo injectors from a similar model. 440cc would be plenty, also a walbro and a good fuel pressure reg.

the above combination would give good gains in power and torque, id expect an easy 50-60 kw more than std. if you can get a n/a ej25 approaching 200 flywheel kw, you are doing well, but it will cost the same as getting a turbo sube to do 250-300 kw at the wheels so you do the math. Power cost money..but boost makes it much easier

of course if you have a Ej30, then the same applies, but a little more cash for the extra parts.

Tuning alone wont realise much more power from an N/A because the engine needs increased cylinder pressure to acheive more power.. either boost, or higher compression ratio and appropriate tune to match.. I suppose an easy way to do it would be a set of pistons, but if going to that expense, why not do a full rebuild..

best bet for a p plater, is keep everything well serviced, add your exhaust for the noise, but leave it all alone until you are legal and then buy a turbo.. IMHO your cash is better spent on wheels and suspension, which can all be swapped off for std items when you sell..


cheers

[Jordan]

Yep, gave him the badge on the back and everything