32 replies to this topic

[aekOne]

The boss of Subaru Australia says the BRZ sports car's overarching impression as a "driver's car" was strong enough to convince the company to divert from its 15-year exclusive all-wheel-drive strategy.

Subaru Australia managing director Nick Senior says despite the BRZ's rear-wheel-drive underpinnings, the vehicle is in line with the company's existing 'All 4 The Driver' philosophy, and would not force a rebranding or fresh marketing direction.

Senior said the deciding factor for bringing the BRZ to Australia was "the comfort that it was a Subaru and [embodies] a true spirit of a Subaru – that is a driver's car and is fun to drive".

He said the BRZ would not have been considered for our market if it was developed as a front-wheel-drive car rather than rear-wheel drive.

"I think if it was ever a front-wheel drive, then no, that's an easy decision to make."

The Subaru BRZ, which has been a joint project between Toyota and Subaru, has also resulted in the soon-to-be-released Toyota 86 and the Toyota-based Scion FRS for the US market. All three models share the majority of their underpinnings and are based on an Impreza platform using a Subaru boxer engine, albeit with Toyota's direct-injection technology. As a result, many have questioned Toyota's involvement and input into the 86.

Referring to the BRZ, Mr Senior said "fundamentally I think it has more of a Subaru heart to it than a Toyota".

Pricing and specification levels are still undetermined but we believe the high-spec Subaru BRZ destined for Australia will cost more than both entry-level and top-spec Toyota 86 variants.

Meanwhile, the future of the Subaru WRX and STI remains unclear following the models' earlier divorce from the Impreza family. The current WRX/STI vehicles (based on the old third-generation Impreza) are expected to remain on sale in a largely unchanged format until the next-generation sports cars are released.

"[We are] still in the process of looking at the next-generation and direction of WRX and STI. We've been looking and evaluating as to which direction it would go. Does it go more upmarket? Does it go more hard-core?"

It's yet to be determined if the WRX and STI will share the platform of the upcoming fourth-generation Impreza small car or use a modified version.

This info and more can be found at: http://www.caradvice.com.au

[skillionaire]

Hi,

Well played. I know that the pressure about the decision will be coming from other manufacturers.

Now.... tell us the bloody PRICE SO I CAN GET EXCITED OR DISAPPOINTED ALREADY!

Cheers,
Nik

[alexGT]

quick quick we need to think of something because we've ruined our slogan...

[skillionaire]

Hi,

Whilst I agree... I also would like to see this car succeed.

I've said it before, I'll say it again, if it's south of $30K - I'll buy one.

Cheers,
Nik

[Rotorex]

Haha south of 30k. No way it's a Subaru. 45k +

[skillionaire]

Hi,

I can dream can't I?

I would be surprised if it's under 45 too ...



Cheers,
Nik

[TSG]

I reckon about $30-35k, its not turbo, nothing really fantastic about it parts wise. They would be fools to price it against the Toyota, people will just buy that which if you ask me, is equally as good looking.

The Impreza goes for mid 20's doesn't it?

ALL 4 THE DRIVER - guess they'll need to replace the 4 with 'FOR' haha.

[skillionaire]

Hi,

The interior is a lot better appointed than on the Toyota though, and I believe things that are considered options will be standard on the Subaru.

Just things I've read on the net, no real knowledge!

Cheers,
Nik

[B4TT]

Nik, I know my boss is pretty keen on one of these, mainly because he wont be caught in a Toyota but loves the car has done a lot a bit of inside research.
At the moment we both agree on the Toyota looking a bit better from the outside buttttt Interior wise the Subaru is going to gang rape the Toyota in fit and finish and standard features.... it will cost more than the Toyota but so worth it.

[Murf B4]

looks like an RX8 take off

[BigWillieStyles]

Great looking car but have to agree that it will be costly, as will the Toyota. I know the aim was for 30K sports car, but in Japan they have the car priced at between 2- 3million yen depending on the model which is between 25 and 35,000 aus dollars, but then add all the additional taxes, import duties, shipping, dealer fees, any required changes for australian regs and you have to wonder how close they will be to the final price. But even at 40K, I reckon you would be hard pressed to find a better rwd platform in a coupe.

[Nizza]

it is a nice car, defenatly a 'drivers' car. but to use the excuse that theyve always had this in mind is absolute rubbish. subaru is built on rally success, 95, 96, and 97 they won the wrc's manufactures championship based on an award wining awd system and boxer layout coupled with the best driver in the business at the time Mr Mcrae himself.

my point here is that subaru is trying to cut costs as much as possible, 'changine our awd phylosophy' is mearly a seg-way to start reproducing CHEAP rear wheel (and ill bet my nuts on this) front wheel cars.

its the same reason they:

• canned twin turbos (gtr as evidence of a monster bi turbo engine)
• canned framless windows
• and finally resorted back to rear wheel and ineviably fwd cars

not to take anything anway from the BRZ apart from the horrible name, the car looks spectacular, and aparently handles unbelievably well - with a total hight of just 1300mm.

i also read somewhere that they produced this car with intentions of owner modifications, its basically a blank canvas, altho im sure theyll throw in an STi enigine somewhere along the line.

but anyways this RWD business doesnt really bother me becasue i own two AWD subarus one of which subaru built its success around.....the mighty GC8 of course, i mean it wouldnt really be a subaru if it didnt have an overly complicated fragile as f&*k awd gearbox now would it?

[Alex]

Nizza,

I disagree with you, on various fronts:

Twin turbos - They could never perfect it the system, it was a very fussy system that was prone to breakage. Subaru would have got jack of having to constantly repair them, especially at their own cost.

Frameless windows: That isn't a cost cutting measure, but merely to maintain a European 5-star safety rating. The only way they could improve on side intrusion rigidty was to incorporate framed windows.

RWD - This is only because it's largely a joint project amongst Toyota, and was merely a compromise. Nothing wrong with a well sorted front engined, rear wheel drive car. With Nissan pulling out their Silvia/200SX affordable RWD platform, and the GFC, it would be wise of them to capitalise on that market.

I don't see Subaru cheapening anything at this stage, and are still doing well to maintain their premium image quite well.


Happy to discuss.

[alexGT]

toyota owns fuji heavy industries. they can tell them to do whatever they want.

i can't freakin wait to drive one of these!

[Alex]

Toyota only owns 16.5% of Subaru. Not enough to control its direction.

[Xon]

Going to have to go ahead and agree with Alex. How can you even begin to compare the GTR's twin system against the B4? The GTR is supercar territory, which is clearly not something Subaru has any intention of developing. Would you buy a $150,000 B4?

Regarding RWD and eventually FWD, Subaru DO already make FWD cars, they just don't sell them here. My understanding of the 86/BRZ development is that it is largely Toyotas initiative. I imagine if Toyota hadn't decided they needed to make something other than a bunch of varying sized whitegoods, Subaru probably would have continued with their (mostly) AWD only platforms.

And the whole point of producing it with user modifications in mind (the 86 will actually be sold in Japan with minimal interior and steelies) was to encourage people to buy them for motorsport. That seems like a pretty good sign to me.

[Nizza]

its well within reason for subaru to manufacture a cheap good quality car being awd or rwd, also being able to take a glipse at toyotas direct injection system has its benefits, altho id be more worried about toyota stealing flat engine layout technology. regardless toyota has too much money at thier disposal to bother stealing thechnology form subaru. i mean this company is responsible for creating some stupidly great cars like MR2's, soarers, levins, sprinters, supras, any kind of lexus including the LFA, and lets not forget the most reliable car in my opinion and i recomend it to anyone looking for a reliable car...the toyota corolla. which makes me wonder why they joined with subaru in the first place?

as for the windows - i thought saftey was the case but i still hate it. i think a bit more dosh on the B pillar would hav fixed that problem

im not comparing GTR's to B4's, i guess what im gettin at is twin turbo cars are possible to make and make well. i think they gave up a bit early on the B4. altho iv never driven a twin turbo id imagine the benefits of having two different size turbos for quicker spool and more constant usable power far outweighs the VOD. put simply they didnt want to spend the money on it, i think they definatly could have made it almost perfect

And the whole point of producing it with user modifications in mind (the 86 will actually be sold in Japan with minimal interior and steelies) was to encourage people to buy them for motorsport. That seems like a pretty good sign to me.

exactly my thoughts 100%

alex, those are all good and valid points but ide still like to see subaru become a bit more 'motor sport' and less 'capitalise on the female consumer' market - yes thats a dig at the all new gay hatch impreza, yeh thats right i think its shit!

yes im aware of the super GT and other rally sports they still competitevley compete in but ide like to see it reflected in the cars they manufacture for us.

i think the split between the impreza and sti was a stupid move, if people didnt want a sports car the liberty was ALWAYS there to do the job, available in both sedan and sexy sexy wagon (gen 4 sti only). it seems to me that subaru are more interested in flooding the market with average cars and less concerned about making pocket rockets that are stupidly cheap and stupidly reliable (yes im refering to the GC8, and even the RS liberty)

the BRZ does show they still want to make an impact but think they should have stuck to the awd system i mean the RWD sports coupe is flooded and dominated with a billion different cars at various price ranges, but i guess i can specuate all i want, i still hav to drive one before i hav a proper argument.

bottom line is, and i think everyone will agree here, is that subaru is a business. they're there to sell cars and make money and will do as the market calls for. i dont think they're concerned about a 20 sumthing year old GC8 driving hoons opinion about where they should be heading

maybe im still bitter about subaru pulling out of the WRC

[Xon]

im not comparing GTR's to B4's, i guess what im gettin at is twin turbo cars are possible to make and make well. i think they gave up a bit early on the B4. altho iv never driven a twin turbo id imagine the benefits of having two different size turbos for quicker spool and more constant usable power far outweighs the VOD. put simply they didnt want to spend the money on it, i think they definatly could have made it almost perfect

There are quite a few TT systems out there that work. The Supra and RX7 come to mind. However, Subaru has spent a lot of money on R&D of single systems. Why split the investment and then go and research a twin turbo setup, when they make good, reliable single systems. In terms of cost, dumping the twins was a good move IMO.
You are of course welcome to your opinion there, but since you've never driven one I'm not sure why you want to defend the setup.

i mean the RWD sports coupe is flooded and dominated with a billion different cars

Is it? What sub-50k RWD sports cars are currently on the market? MX-5...?
You have your own style tastes, but I haven't heard anybody else saying this thing looks like a hairdressers car.

[Jimbo]

I think the BRZ is a one off oppertunity to bend the rules within Subaru Aus' marketing strategy. Theres no way they would start bringing in the FWD Subaru range. The BRZ was a big enough head scratcher for them as it is, and i dont really think they should have worried about changing the marketing at all to suit it. The clientel which will show interest in the BRZ is dudes our age up to 30 who dont really care about what the blurb on Subaru marketing posters say, as opposed to the happy family crunching the numbers for their next kiddie wagon, of which the BRZ wont even show a blip on their radar.

I think Subaru are currently doing quite well with the path of models recently. Tribeca is now in the bin along with the Exiga which will see a merge into a new product. Their styling language appears it will change soon, hopefully along with the current Liberty which is well over-due for a re-fresh. The new Impreza is looking good and appealing to their target market, which isnt us so of course we think it looks shocking. The new XV looks to be a hit and seems very competetive against the others, loaded with kit.

The BRZ was made for us, by people like us. I was very suprised on the decision to bring it over as i thought there would be no way, but all it takes is a few people to flash their wallets around, show interest and for Subaru to bite the bullet.

With such a fantastic R&D and joint ventureship between Subaru and Toyota, Senior would have been mad to pass up the oppertunity of this car on our shores. Like i said i dont think the car is that damaging to its current marketing, seems a total waste of time to have to re-face the entire marketing strategy for a car that will only makes up 16% of the range of models and probably an even lower percentage of the interested clientel.


As said above, the frameless doors had to go due to safety improvements, unfortunaly some styling is very US targeted which to me seems like Toyota whispering in Subarus ear as i believe Subaru could have done a MUCH better job on the current Liberty's styling. Looking at a Gen4 then a Gen5 i cant see how they went from one to the other.

Also, Subaru's TT system was dropped due to tightening emissions laws. Good idea in theory and on paper, but didnt translate well enough into the real world. A simply over-complex and fragile system that was burning a hole in their pocket.


Looking forward to seeing some of these on the roads soon! I would have one in white with black tints, wheels and highlights.

Only thing i can fault on it is the horrid Peugeot style front air dam, and the tail lights need tinting something bad,

[XXB4XX]

I'm seeing the BRZ as another RX8,

A slug dressed up as a sports car, with a lot of interest until it's actually released.

Put a turbo in it, and it may be another story.