70 replies to this topic

[legacy rsk]

why do you need a poll there is onlt one choice FMIC

[Shaz]

I giggle at this

I have a boring 600*300*76 plate and fin cooler.. so like the worst you can get for "lag" and "responce". get me 3.5k, 2nd or 3rd gear and if im not smooth on/off the throttle, the SoB is jerking (from acceleration/deceleration) around like a $2 hooker.

Sure, because your cooler piping is already pressurized at that stage. How is it below 3500rpm though?

Also, link for $2 hooker pls. Theories to test.

Cheers,
Shazza

[aekOne]

but as jim said, at 15psi it doesn't take a noticeable amount of time for the air inside the piping to become pressurized. people make out like this "lag" is going to take a matter seconds longer before your car hits boost when really it'll only take a fraction of a second for the FMIC to get pressure compared to a TMIC.

all these guys are speaking from experience not theory.

If we're "racing" i'm not driving under 3.5k. I'm launching at 3.5k then shifting at 6.5k. there's ALWAYS going to be pressure in a situation where spirited driving is involved.

[Richo]

if im on part throttle holding a speed, it isn't as it is still running vacuum. however if I smash my foot into it i'll be at 15psi within a second - and this with an 8cm td05-20g

Under 3.5k, fine.. under 2.5k ok. 2k, 4th it still pulls fairly well up a hill

[Jimbo]

Tints : "Whether or not the above is noticeable on a mildly tuned EJ20T, I don't know, as ive not had any first hand experience"}

Then how are you backing your claims of excessive lag?

On my gen1 conversion, my first FMIC core was 600x300x100 which is like Kenworth truckin' core overkill. I then moved to a 500x250x65 core with all the same exact mods and noticed NO difference in throttle response. I also noticed NO difference in response/lag moving from the V2 TMIC to the first FMIC setup.

My experience in moving to a FMIC was excellent, i had a much better power delivery in mid to top end range due to the extra cooling efficiency of the setup. Around town driving was much easier without having to accomodate for heat soak.

The only time a FMIC setup would need to be explored to combat pressure drop and response is if your brandishing a 1000hp child eating Supra or such, where the tiny numbers come into play.

To the average backyard and mild tuner such as ourselves, the fear of lag or pressure drop isnt important and shouldnt factor into the equation of deciding to do it or not.

The only factors that the vast majority of us need to decide on is a) do i really want to hack some of my car? [mind you, with patience and a well thought out plan can be done very easily and subtly] and can i afford to do it?

Simple as that.

[Alex]

unfounded silly and inconclusive theories < real world experience from multiple people.





amen.

[Shaz]

On my old R33 skyline, that came with a side mount, minimal piping setup, as soon as we put a fmic on it, full boost was being hit at around 800rpm higher then it was before. It was actually slower off the line.

My mate had the exact same skyline as mine, except he had a SMIC and I had a FMIC.

At the races, he would get the jump on me and be around half a car length in front, but I would eventually end up chasing him down up around the 100kmh mark. I had much higher top end then him though, and the overall power delivery was alot better.

Point being, he would get 15psi to the ground faster then what I did, hence the "lag".

[Grant]

On my old R33 skyline, that came with a side mount, minimal piping setup, as soon as we put a fmic on it, full boost was being hit at around 800rpm higher then it was before. It was actually slower off the line.

My mate had the exact same skyline as mine, except he had a SMIC and I had a FMIC.

At the races, he would get the jump on me and be around half a car length in front, but I would eventually end up chasing him down up around the 100kmh mark. I had much higher top end then him though, and the overall power delivery was alot better.

Point being, he would get 15psi to the ground faster then what I did, hence the "lag".

There are soooooo many other factors that could be attributed to why you were slower off the line. Were the mods and tune exactly the same with both cars except for the intercooler? I doubt it. It could come down to the driver, type of air filter (pod or boxed), exhaust, you could've done the install dodgy and had a boost leak in the piping...etc etc.

[Shaz]

There are soooooo many other factors that could be attributed to why you were slower off the line. Were the mods and tune exactly the same with both cars except for the intercooler? I doubt it. It could come down to the driver, type of air filter (pod or boxed), exhaust, you could've done the install dodgy and had a boost leak in the piping...etc etc.

They were 99% identical.

Same exhaust (Full 3" system, turbo back, off the shelf items), intake (Standard airbox with K&N Panel Filters), standard ecu, and boost.

We drove each others cars and both agreed on the fact mine hit boost around 800rpm later then his.

Cheers,
Shazza

[Alex]

Oh my God Shannon.


You're now comparing giraffes with apples and oranges.

[Shaz]

Oh my God Shannon.


You're now comparing giraffes with apples and oranges.

Lol.

Just stating airflow characteristics.
Not stating a TMIC is better then a FMIC, because its not.

Merely stating that because the inlet tract is shorter, it takes less time for air entering the turbo, to reach the throttle body.

/end debate.

Giraffe eating apples ftw.

Cheers,
Shazzaa

[Alex]

So who ate the orange?

The TMIC?

[Shaz]

So who ate the orange?

The TMIC?

A new breed of dinosaur called a TMIC-Rex.

Cheers,
Shazza

[Alex]

Topmountasaurus Rex?

Didn't they die off in the older ages?


Good ol' evolution.

Now we have the better, leaner, meaner, and survived the cold ages (crisp nights?!), The Frontmountigator.

[Shaz]

Topmountasaurus Rex?

Didn't they die off in the older ages?


Good ol' evolution.

Now we have the better, leaner, meaner, and survived the cold ages (crisp nights?!), The Frontmountigator.

?

Cheers,
Shazza

[Shaz]

Cheers,
Shazza

[aekOne]

[allpaw4]

It depends heavily on price, and what driving conditions you are in.

Me, out in the sticks, 90km from the nearest town, and the closest traffic lights 270km away, a TMIC is ok for me. I also have the joys of interactions with large forms of wildlife too - damage to the cooler is also a consideration for me. If I hit skippy in the blue car like I did in the red one, I would have been stuck there with a FMIC. TMIC I would have driven away awfully pissed off, but still would have driven away.

If you are in the middle of Sydney however, you want a FMIC. Pros and cons can be great, but engine longevity is what we're after. Heat soak is a big factor in the cities. Don't just look at pros and cons of the mod, look at your situation as well.

Cheers,
Ben

Oh, and the last page of comments made me LOL!

[Soop]

I cant believe theres even a question here.

Top mount, if you're lame and don't want to do more then undo hose clamps and bolts.

Front mount, if you want to actually make an improvement...

*Damage to the cooler.
You've less chance of worrying the cooler with a rock then you do the radiator. In any case I'd rather a fugged cooler core then a holed radiator.
If you're going to hit something big enough to worry the cooler, you'll be worried about more then a damged cooler.

If you're going to go with a TMIC, just stick with the stock unit. I know it wont make you feel all warm and fuzzy after spending some money. But thats all an aftermarket TMIC is going to achieve.

[alexGT]

wow. again.

i use a top mount and swear by it. i never cop heatsoak EVER. i had a top mount on my last car and it was freaking great too.

who cares what the internet says, everyone is going to get different results so just go out and do whatever and report back!