125 replies to this topic

[Liberty]

Of course man... I wasn't born yesterday. I've been pulled over on the basis that I "look" Arab (which I don't). Words from the cop himself. When they look at my last name they get confused and have to look at me twice to confirm the picture and who I am.

 

If you have an engineers certificate for something, why would it be overlooked by an officer? If you aren't acting like a complete prick to him and help him understand what is on that piece of paper, nine times out of ten you will drive away without a problem. Like I've said, I've had many run-ins with the cops. Not as much as some others, but enough for me to have walked away with some knowledge. You treat a cop like a fuckwit, then your screwed. If you have respect and the right attitude, you'll walk away without a problem.

 

the logic is that because its a road registered vehicle it has the potential to be driven on the road. ergo can be considered unsafe due to the defects.

 

And that's the reality of the beast Mark.

 

So silly but the rules are there to be followed. If you go against it, it'll just make your situation worse than it is. The 'potential' of driving it on the roads as opposed to 'driving' it on the roads are two completely different things. Why else would you put it on a trailer?

 

Not necessarily, I am sure a picky cop would find something that he could get you for.

 

Unfortunately a lot of NSW HWP are not mechanics/engineers, they do not understand what they are looking at..so they are given the freedom to defect your car if they suspect that something looks suspect, it is then the responsibility of the owner to have the defect cleared.

 

The only thing right this second would be my tyres, but everything else is pretty much schmick. The only way anyone could keep their cars perfect is to buy one in the showroom, and LEAVE IT THERE.

 

But if you are defected for something that isn't a defect, could you not get it reversed without having to pay a cent? Represent yourself in court or get legal aid and if you win, they pay the court costs. Or are there rules that prevent them from doing that too?

Correct, once again they are not trained to know exactly what they are looking at on an intricate level.. That is why they can look at an engineers cert for a FMIC and yet they can still defect you for it if they really want to and simply say "I am not satisfied that this is the same item that is on the cert" and then once again, it is up to the owner to clear the defect.

 

Once that defect is cleared and a cop pulls you over and tries to defect you for the same thing, can you not show them the cleared defect as well as the engineers certificate?

[nickknack]

I agree that everything should be legal on a car, but I think cops need more training in these matters, even if it means waiting on the side of the road while they call in an expert. I think that having a current engineer's certificate should carry more favour unless there is something quite clearly out of order. At the moment the only thing defectable I have on my car is an adjustable blow off valve and because of the way it points down, it's quite discreet. 

[B4TT]

As you have pointed out, a lot of the time if you treat the cop with respect you will be fine and they will do the right thing, if you front them up in an arrogant manner when they question something and just say "fork you I have papers" they will get you. If you are reasonable about how you state your case they seem to be ok most of the time..

 

You do get cubts who are only out to power trip though and unfortunately there is not a lot you can do in that case.

[Liberty]

Spot on Josh.

 

I agree that everything should be legal on a car, but I think cops need more training in these matters, even if it means waiting on the side of the road while they call in an expert. I think that having a current engineer's certificate should carry more favour unless there is something quite clearly out of order. At the moment the only thing defectable I have on my car is an adjustable blow off valve and because of the way it points down, it's quite discreet. 

 

Agreed. 100%.

 

P.S: I assume you got your brake pads?

[mark300]

 

So silly but the rules are there to be followed. If you go against it, it'll just make your situation worse than it is. The 'potential' of driving it on the roads as opposed to 'driving' it on the roads are two completely different things. Why else would you put it on a trailer?

 

there are alot of laws like this, that can be seen as stupid. but it is just the nature of the law. like we are told in our law lectures, its all about the interpretation of the law.

while any reasonable person knows that while a car may be registered and is on a car trailer, we know it is unlikely that it is going to be driven on a public road, the potential is still there as it is a road registered vehicle and therefore must comply to the road rules. and that is the loophole that the cops use to justify it

[Liberty]

It's not logical, but I do understand the point they make. We can't change it as much as we argue against it so there really is no point.

[R-Y]

If you have an engineers certificate for something, why would it be overlooked by an officer? If you aren't acting like a complete prick to him and help him understand what is on that piece of paper, nine times out of ten you will drive away without a problem. Like I've said, I've had many run-ins with the cops. Not as much as some others, but enough for me to have walked away with some knowledge. You treat a cop like a fuckwit, then your screwed. If you have respect and the right attitude, you'll walk away without a problem.

Again you are missled, you can be the nicest person to them and be overly friendly but if they dont like the look of you or your car, your a$$ is theirs

[B4TT]

At the same time, if the car is no longer road worthy and needs to be on a trailer to move it, why not just cancel the registration and save yourself the hassles? 

[mark300]

It's not logical, but I do understand the point they make. We can't change it as much as we argue against it so there really is no point.

 

there is alot of illogical laws in the books that make absolutely no sense whatsoever, alot of them rarely get enforced just because of how stupid they are.

At the same time, if the car is no longer road worthy and needs to be on a trailer to move it, why not just cancel the registration and save yourself the hassles? 

 

spot on josh. while i can see merit in putting a car on a  trailer to take it somewhere (ie taking it to a mechanics to get work done or something and its undriveable mechanically, and 9 times out of 10 im sure this reasoning would work with a policeman) if you are continually towing it around and it is in actual fact a car you are purely tracking or drifting, just cancel the rego and you will have no hassles. cops cant defect a car that isnt registered. simple

[R-Y]

As for cars on trailers, take number plates off before hand, tell them its a dedicated track car.

[R-Y]

Also, Im 99% sure that their is still a law out there that states you need a man with a flag to walk in front of your car to notify people on horses that you are coming, so as to not upset the horses.......

 

 

WTF??? I know right. But what court would enforce that these days?? To many laws out there that are out dated and need to be modified/changed/removed.

[Liberty]

Again you are missled, you can be the nicest person to them and be overly friendly but if they dont like the look of you or your car, your a$$ is theirs

 

They're human too. There could be a huge range of things that negatively affect their mood or the situation... I've had situations where it was my friends that were being a bit stupid and even though nothing happened to me, I was thankful to have an understanding officer. I am speaking from my own experiences, not generalising for the entire police force or everyone else's experiences.

 

I have had a completely prick of a highway patrol officer using his power and status to fork me over. His tone of voice was atrocious and every question he asked me I answered without bullshit and to the point. After taking my license for check ups he came back and apologised for his "inappropriate tone" and even though I was fined, at least he apologised. It didn't make me feel good or all like 'I'm better than you', but they're human. They fork up. They have families, divorces, break ups, friends and family that pass away, etc. They're just like you and me, except they're jobs are ones that not everyone appreciates.

[nickknack]

All that is irrelevant Gary, as police officers, they have an obligation to not let any of that shit cloud their judgement or interpretation of the law.

[Liberty]

Of course and it is part of their training, but it still happens man.

[B4TT]

I will agree with Gary on that, everyone makes mistakes, it is unreasonable to think that they should be robots 100% of the time when they are still (mostly) human at the end of the day.

[Zac]

Aren't there any cops on this forum at all?

 

Shouldn't we hear from them?

[aekOne]

It is clear Targeting.. but it is also justified..

 

 

this 

 

Hate to burst you bubble but if you get the wrong cop they can and will most probably defect you if they really want to. Their are a lot of cars out there that come off the show room floor that are technically illegal in one way or another. So really no one is safe.

 

And this

 

My problem isn’t that they’re defecting delectable cars, what annoys me the most about these kinds of busts is what I perceive as the relentless “bullying” of modified car enthusiasts. Yes if your car is “legal” then in theory you have nothing to be worried about but as has been mentioned previously, just because your car is legal and/or have an engineer’s cert doesn’t make you “safe”. They can still issue you with a defect notice or worse, an EPA attendance. Even if your car is legal you may made to jump through hoops to prove it. Andy had to visit EPA three times to prove his innocence with a legally modified car. each EPA visit costs money and each day off work costs money. I don't see how anyone can say serves him right, he deserved that or that's fair when every single part on his car was made by subaru. the whole if your car's legal, your fine line is fine in theory but BS in practice because police use their own discretion with issuing notices. 

 

In my opinion the police should be working closer with enthusiast groups the way they do the USA and Europe by attending meets as a friendly force, putting on speed off the street events, driver training workshops etc. there are ways to educate people and scare tactics and intimidation is one way but all that’s doing is creating a larger divide and a real us vs them mentality that isn’t productive in the long run. I bet that in a lot of cases, a car enthusiast “daily” beaters are probably more dangerous than their weekend cars they’re too afraid to drive for risk of defect

 

I, as I’m sure a lot of your guys do too, have a lot of mechanic friends and I bet if you ask ANY of them and they will tell you that the most dangerous cars on the road are ones driven by middle aged soccer mums. Headlights, tail lights and indcators out, brakes totally worn, shocks gone, bald tyres, 20k over service etc etc. Now these are the same “respectable’ cars and owners that I see “hooning” through the three school zones I drive through every morning (often sitting up my arse as I do the posted 40kmph) to drop little johnnie and little suzie off to school. Not only that but double parking in no standing zones.

 

I sure that a defect station, EPA unit and speed trap outside Cromer Highschool pulling over school run mums of a morning would net more non roadworthy cars, more epa violations and more speeding offences than the station set up outside of the top gear festival in Sydney earlier this year but I’m thinking it’s very unlikely that’s about to happen. It’s easier to sit outside an enthusiast car event, send Tracy Grimshaw and her TV cameras down there to record the police “cleaning up the streets”.

 

I’d also like to point out that in no way am I trying to say that illegally modified cars should be allowed to do as they like, just that it seems that the police’s whole fish in a barrel approach isn’t the best way to fix the problems of un-roadworthy cars on our roads nor is it the way to gain respect or earn any influence within the modified car scene. And they wonder why they get attitude from enthusiasts 

[R-Y]

Aren't there any cops on this forum at all?

 

Shouldn't we hear from them?

To scared or they know the facts are correct.

 

Ive got mates that are cops and even I know they can be complete and utter dckheads

[R-Y]

 

this 

 

 

 

And this

 

My problem isn’t that they’re defecting delectable cars, what annoys me the most about these kinds of busts is what I perceive as the relentless “bullying” of modified car enthusiasts. Yes if your car is “legal” then in theory you have nothing to be worried about but as has been mentioned previously, just because your car is legal and/or have an engineer’s cert doesn’t make you “safe”. They can still issue you with a defect notice or worse, an EPA attendance. Even if your car is legal you may made to jump through hoops to prove it. Andy had to visit EPA three times to prove his innocence with a legally modified car. each EPA visit costs money and each day off work costs money. I don't see how anyone can say serves him right, he deserved that or that's fair when every single part on his car was made by subaru. the whole if your car's legal, your fine line is fine in theory but BS in practice because police use their own discretion with issuing notices. 

 

In my opinion the police should be working closer with enthusiast groups the way they do the USA and Europe by attending meets as a friendly force, putting on speed off the street events, driver training workshops etc. there are ways to educate people and scare tactics and intimidation is one way but all that’s doing is creating a larger divide and a real us vs them mentality that isn’t productive in the long run. I bet that in a lot of cases, a car enthusiast “daily” beaters are probably more dangerous than their weekend cars they’re too afraid to drive for risk of defect

 

I, as I’m sure a lot of your guys do too, have a lot of mechanic friends and I bet if you ask ANY of them and they will tell you that the most dangerous cars on the road are ones driven by middle aged soccer mums. Headlights, tail lights and indcators out, brakes totally worn, shocks gone, bald tyres, 20k over service etc etc. Now these are the same “respectable’ cars and owners that I see “hooning” through the three school zones I drive through every morning (often sitting up my arse as I do the posted 40kmph) to drop little johnnie and little suzie off to school. Not only that but double parking in no standing zones.

 

I sure that a defect station, EPA unit and speed trap outside Cromer Highschool pulling over school run mums of a morning would net more non roadworthy cars, more epa violations and more speeding offences than the station set up outside of the top gear festival in Sydney earlier this year but I’m thinking it’s very unlikely that’s about to happen. It’s easier to sit outside an enthusiast car event, send Tracy Grimshaw and her TV cameras down there to record the police “cleaning up the streets”.

 

I’d also like to point out that in no way am I trying to say that illegally modified cars should be allowed to do as they like, just that it seems that the police’s whole fish in a barrel approach isn’t the best way to fix the problems of un-roadworthy cars on our roads nor is it the way to gain respect or earn any influence within the modified car scene. And they wonder why they get attitude from enthusiasts 

 

:: Golf Clap ::

[mark300]

 

 

I sure that a defect station, EPA unit and speed trap outside Cromer Highschool pulling over school run mums of a morning would net more non roadworthy cars, more epa violations and more speeding offences than the station set up outside of the top gear festival in Sydney earlier this year but I’m thinking it’s very unlikely that’s about to happen. It’s easier to sit outside an enthusiast car event, send Tracy Grimshaw and her TV cameras down there to record the police “cleaning up the streets”.

 

agree completely with everything you said Aek, but this point in particular is the highlight of it all i think, public opinion and image. you get news networks like Grimshaw and the like doing their whole target on car enthusiasts and their accusation that we all drive around doing burnouts and all manner of bad things to society (so far from the truth its not funny). its then easy for the cops to set up these big defect stations and show the public that they are responding to the opinion of the car hoon situation. basically, all im saying is its a public opinion thing. easy to do it this way and show they are doing something, otherwise it looks like they are doing nothing