41 replies to this topic

[mark300]

Hey all

 

so thought id start up a bit of a discussion on this one as it seems to be a hot talking point amongst the car community.

 

As we are all probably aware, the NSW government recently amended the vehicle restriction laws for P plate drivers to allow them to drive certain Turbocharged vehicles if under 130kw/tonne. this has of course seen P platers everywhere rummaging for anything they can find, and bombarding facebook groups with the question of "can i drive this car?"
 

My question to you all is: do you think the laws are right and have they worked? 
 

My Opinion:

 

i can certainly see where the government are coming at with the change of laws, the number of turbocharged vehicles being sold on the market now that arent really all that powerful but are banned is rather high (just look at the holden cruze, and a few of the lower range Volkswagen golfs). however this has also opened the flood gates for such cars as WRX's and even S15s to now become legal for P platers. the argument can certainly be had that people who have only been driving for a year or two shouldnt be behind the wheels of such cars. 

in saying that, cars such as SV6 commodores and XR6 falcons have been legal and accessible all along, and are just as powerful as a wrx and just as dangerous when not driven with respect. 


so whats your thoughts? do the laws need a rethink again perhaps? 

[Barbbachello]

I think they almost need to do another test if you want a powerful car. The number of peanuts that are now going to be in potentially very powerful cars, lets be honest no one is going to leave them stock, is going to go through the roof.

[thatTTguy]

The government doesn't even know what year it is... 

As you said sv6's/xr6's have always been available, but really any car for that matter can go fast and can be dangerous to an inexperienced p plater... letting them have turbo'd cars now, probably isn't going to help the situation of them causing and being in accidents.... 
 
 

[Meadyy8]

I as a p plater think it is a bad thing. No matter how good of a driver you think you are. The quicker a vehicle accelerates, the faster your ability to control it when something goes wrong, goes flying out the window. I learnt the hard way on my reds, and are still suffering from my own mistakes, mind you, this was in an n/a 4 cylinder. The vehicle restrictions should be a similar platform as the speed restrictions, so the more experienced you become, the more powerful vehicle you are allowed to drive.

For starters any car minded person isn't going to keep their vehicle stock standard, and smart performance enhancing mods can be kept out of view of our states finest.

The vehicles which are economically friendly and are small turbo engines designed for minimal fuel usage and emissions should be free to drive. But whoever has introduced the rule allowing certain vehicles like a wrx, s15 and the like, have obviously never driven one, let alone jumped in a car driven by a testosterone filled young blood out for some fun.

[Jimbo]

I think the power/weight ratio should be split into 2 categories.

In the "mediocre" turbocharged/supercharged range, the following guidelines should be applicable:

- The vehicle has a maximum of 115kw/tonne
- The vehicle must have been manufactured after 2000.
- If the vehicle is found to be modified in any way that requires an engineers certificate, the driver's licence is suspended instantly, in the same manner they may have it suspended for speeding offences.

If the car reaches the upper end of the power/weight scale, the following guidelines should be applicable:
 

- The vehicle is between 115kw/tonne and 130(max)kw/tonne. 130kw/tonne being the maximum outlined by the RMS.
- The vehicle is no more than 10 years old.
- The vehicle has a 5 star ANCAP safety rating.
- The driver has completed a 3rd party professionally operated Driver Training program, which is recognised by the government and RMS.
- If the vehicle is found to be modified in any way that requires an engineers certificate, the driver's licence is suspended instantly, in the same manner they may have it suspended for speeding offences.


This means turbocharged cars which aren't purposefully "performance" can still be accessible. For example, splitting the difference between say a VW Golf TSI and a VW GTI, recognising one is a performance car and the other is not.


 

[duncanm]

- The driver has completed a 3rd party professionally operated Driver Training program, which is recognised by the government and RMS.

 

 

I reckon this should be mandatory anyway. No matter what you drive.

 

There's way too much emphasis on rote learning, and very little on the driving skills required to avoid accidents.

[Jimbo]

 

I reckon this should be mandatory anyway. No matter what you drive.

 

There's way too much emphasis on rote learning, and very little on the driving skills required to avoid accidents.

Infact there was something on the news which really grinded my gears tonight. They setup a big event in an auditorium for high school kids to attend which used shock tactics to "educate" them. They all watched on a stage a re-enactment of a "p-plater" fatality involving police, ambos and fire crews etc with actors. Sure, half the kids probably got emotional and like "ermaghawd that could be me" and the other half laughed and were bored, but the fact is half those kids will wake up the next day and totally forget the whole thing.

The govt need to stop wasting money on scare tactics on school kids and actually get the kids behind the wheel after they complete their L's in order to progress to their P's. Have the whole driver training day marked and scored so they CAN'T get their P's until they demonstrate an ability to complete the training. Like they would the computer test sitting at a desk in the RMS. To me, pressing a screen when you think you should or shouldn't slow down, is laughable. And the truth is, that's all you need to do to get on our roads as an inexperienced young driver. Oh, and know how much a P-Plater can or can't tow or how to reverse park.

Kids DON'T KNOW what happens when you have to make an evasive maneuver at speed and how to control a car when they lose grip. The list goes on. Problem is, these things happen for a myriad of reasons be it weather conditions, road conditions and other drivers.That's how they get killed on the road. They are greater risk takers, they NEED to know.

When i did Ian Luff's Advanced Driver Training program, (Stage 1 and 2), he told us what we learnt there on that day, a minuscule 1% of the driving population will ever know. The other 99% of the driving population NEED to know, and it needs to start NOW with young drivers.

Think of the economic boost this would have! The money the govt makes on speed camera and traffic infringement revenue could surely fund it easily. The sad thing is, the govt would scoff at the suggestion of compulsory driver training for young drivers. It's probably costs them SFA to run a workshop on shock tactics in schools.

Even if there was a co-payment of $100 by the parents or guardians, i think they would be more than willing to contribute some of the cost if it ment keeping their kid safer on the roads.

[zahmad]

I liked your two-tiered power to weight scheme Jimbo!

Unfortunately idiots will be idiots. Like today on the M4, one idiot in an MR2 decided to weed in and out of traffic at high speeds like he's on Fast & Furious followed by another red-plater idiot in his 318i....

[Barbbachello]

Also something needs to change with the hours system. 50% of people I know with Ps faked it and that is somewhat scary. Its seen as a nuisance rather than being made to learn how to drive

[TittySprinklez]

what are all your opinions on the 90km/h speed limit? since losing my license once, i stick to this speed limit and find myself putting other full licenses drivers in danger as they tail gate and overtake, i sit closer to the left to let drivers behind see whats up ahead to minimise the chance of a head on, iv had a truck over take me whilst i was doing 90 in a 110 zone and flash his highbeams at oncoming traffic to stop them (this was during the day), i slowed down of course to let the truck pass quicker but still, this was quite a scene to cause and be a part of:/ 

i personally dont get how only nsw red p platers are stuck on 90

[Barbbachello]

what are all your opinions on the 90km/h speed limit? since losing my license once, i stick to this speed limit and find myself putting other full licenses drivers in danger

This. I think its utter rubbish. Why learnt to drive slowly. Should learn how to drive at the speed everyone else is driving at. 

[nickknack]

I bought my B4 on my P's, didn't crash it It's not a hugely powerful car but it's towards the upper bound of the kw/ton limit I think. 

 

Agreed on the driver training. That taught me just how little control I actually have when the car loses traction. But to be honest I think I drove way more recklessly when I had a cheap car I didn't care about. As soon as I saved up all my money and bought something nice, I was much more cautious.

[duncanm]

yup yup and yup to all the above.

 

Look at the success of the compulsory motorcycle training in NSW.

[skillionaire]

Hi,

 

 

Just so you know, motorcycle deaths in NSW have spiked in an unprecedented fashion over the last 12 months.

 

Cheers,
Nik

[Reevesy]

Look at the success of the compulsory motorcycle training in NSW.

 

They must teach them to wear shorts and thongs on a bike....

[duncanm]

Hi,

 

 

Just so you know, motorcycle deaths in NSW have spiked in an unprecedented fashion over the last 12 months.

 

Cheers,
Nik

 

Absolute, or per mile driven?  

 

I'd be surprised if it isn't due to the spike in hipsters on scooters. 

[duncanm]

I almost killed an idiot and his pillion on a scooter some time back.

 

Clocked them side on at about 40km/h, one went over the roof.

 

Fortunately, most severe injury was a busted leg.

[alexGT]

 

i personally dont get how only nsw red p platers are stuck on 90

 

Because P platers are inexperienced drivers hence need to be limited in what vehicle and speeds can be obtained.

 

the RMS/Police aren't dumb. they WILL book P Platers with modified cars and if you are a P Plater and modify your car you are asking to get booked because these laws will paint an even bigger target on you.

 

3 years isn't a long time, I was cranky when I couldnt drive turbo on my P's (missed out on original turbo laws by a matter of months) but am thankful that it did happen. 

 

9.5 years licensed, no accidents, no fines, several advanced driving course and track days and still had a very enjoyable time.

[TittySprinklez]

what i mean by that is how only nsw red p platers do 90, yet every other state( as far as i know) can do the speed limit. 

like, what makes me more experienced by just living in VIC or QLD. 

[Staxta]

 

Because P platers are inexperienced drivers hence need to be limited in what vehicle and speeds can be obtained.

 

the RMS/Police aren't dumb. they WILL book P Platers with modified cars and if you are a P Plater and modify your car you are asking to get booked because these laws will paint an even bigger target on you.

 

3 years isn't a long time, I was cranky when I couldnt drive turbo on my P's (missed out on original turbo laws by a matter of months) but am thankful that it did happen. 

 

9.5 years licensed, no accidents, no fines, several advanced driving course and track days and still had a very enjoyable time.

 

Driving 90 on a country road and 90 on a highway are entirely different things, everyone should be able to do 110 on highways.