10 replies to this topic

[allpaw4]

Hey all.

Was doing some thinking this week, as I am really thinking seriously about keeping the B4 as is and starting a cheaper project to go racing with...

So. What do you people think of taking a light as hell brumby, and dropping a version 8 STi spec C drivetrain into it?
Is it doable?
Will I need large amounts of chassis strengthening?
Can I keep the AWD?

The usual sorts of questions, thinking about dropping something like this into dirt circuit (and probably a few track days, once the suspension is changed out for coil overs, if available) to get a feel for how motorsport works.

Main thinking here is:
Brumby is light and the EJ series motors bolt in. Making for awesome power to weight ratios.
6 spd may be able to be made to fit, if it isnt bolt in already.

Suspension availability is probably going to be an issue, as for a track car, this will need coil-overs, especially if I'm crossing lines from dirt circuit to proper sealed motorsport events at places like Mallala. There is a huge difference between the two, so being able to change damper rates, vehicle heights, etc will be a must.

Rear diffs - Does anyone know how difficult it will be to mount an R180 rear diff etc into a brumby? I know anything is possible if you throw enough money at it, but if its a major pain to do it, I'll come up with some other ideas.

Roll cages are a requirement for dirt circuit, as such I will be aiming for one that will cover the majority of classes rules. Each has specific clauses that I still need to read up on.

Anyways, thought I'd put this out there, please tell me your opinions, good or bad. Any suggestions, I am more than willing to hear them!

Cheers,
Ben

[Alex]

Ben,

Having visited this many times over, and almost contemplating something remotely similar (V1-2 WRX into L series), it'll bring lots of heartbreak and tears.

Here are my thoughts and experiences on the matter:

1) EJ's don't bolt in. Period. Mounts don't line up, and require custom fabrication. The heads don't clear the rails, and will either need to be bashed in (ugly, yet effective), or notched out (read: not legal)
2) Six speeds sure as hell don't bolt in without significant bashing of the trans tunnel. I have seen an EJ20 Auto in a Brumby, and the autos are the same size physically as the six speed gearbox, so I assume it is doable.
3) Torsion beam rear end is totally ratshit for any form of handling. You'll twist it on the first launch. I've seem them twist with even the standard EA81 1.8L OHV Carburettored motor!!
4) To fit rear end, it will require massive fabrication of rear subframe. R180 subframe would be no different really than an R160 subframe, as they're interchangeable.
5) You'll be forever ripping out captive nuts that hold subframes and cross members. I've done a couple of them with my old L series, man what a bitch that was. The car would go all sloppy like.
6) You'll twist the body. Straight up. Late 70's body manufacturing technology was never terribly rigid, and really, never designed to have anything more than 80hp run through them.

Also, every single person I've ever seen, who had converted their Brumby to EJ20T, would be selling their car rather urgently when completed.

That last point signals to me, that this venture is not a very good idea.


Sorry to be a downer.

Personally, for a toy car, I'd be looking at an early impreza LX, deck it out with STi spec gear, but keep it looking like an LX. Front mount it, and abuse it like a red headed stepchild. Let the stance kids attract all the attention.... You go about cutting four wheel hoops with minimal incrimination

Hope this is of some help.

[alexGT]

GC8 stripped out track car = low 1100kgs

will save you a stupid amount of time and money. check rslibertyclub or rexnet for "bazza" and check his race car!

[allpaw4]

Ah, thats cool! thanks for this info guys!

Yes, it may have killed the idea, but for good reason. No way is a cheap track car idea worth that much rooting around. I had no idea how many issues there was with these sort of 'upgrades'.

Always looking for ideas and more importantly, whether the ideas are actually workable. Looks like this one is not. Don't say you are a downer on this idea, much rather have truth than have several people say "Do it!" and then work out its not going to happen.

I don't mind the idea of a GC8 track car, but everyone knows what they are, and I wouldn't mind doing something different. Yes, I understand there are reasons everyone uses GC8s, but surely there is something out there that can do the same job almost as effectively.

Cheers for the honesty and lack of abuse for thinking about this fellas.

Ben

[Adam]

Check out the vortex track car build on here.

He is a mate and from what he has been saying its working out alright! He chucked a rexy engine in.

[Alex]

Don't say you are a downer on this idea, much rather have truth than have several people say "Do it!" and then work out its not going to happen.

This point here is the anti-mantra of the kiddies today.

Tell them that something isn't a good idea, they go ahead and do it anyway, either out of spite, or wanting to be "different" (invariably, they're not!), and it all ends up in tears and massive financial debts.

As Alexxx has mentioned, Bazza on RSLC has fitted an SVX 3.3 H6 into his GC8 track car, and the crazyfooker has now slapped a GT35R onto it. From all reports, it hauls serious ass, is totally ridiculously fun to drive, and the best bit.... He did it on a strict shoestring budget.

One of my favourite cars on RSLC is Rallyeeeee's Gen1 GX Liberty. The thing looks absolutely standard, except for the wheels, but he hand built a fire breathing 2.5L in it, six speed, R180, etc etc, it looks like shit, you wouldn't piss on it if it were on fire (OK maybe I would) and to date, is the only person I know of who has worn out a brand new set of Kumho KU31's down to the belts in three days.

All done on a uni student budget too.

Also check out Frank's chalkboard racer. He too hand built a tough 2.5L, but he's waiting for the sand to blow out of his Vagina* before he removes that dirty Mitsubishi turbo off of it, and puts on a real turbo**.

They sound good fun to me.






* Batteries sold separately.
** This statement was not a paid advertisement from Garrett

[RX25SE]

GC8 stripped out track car = low 1100kgs

Agree.

The cheapest horsepower is weight reduction; adds to braking performance and reduces driveline loading also.

[bd-850]

there is a brumby on ebay for sale at the moment with a twin turbo Liberty motor in it for $7000

[allpaw4]

Nah, pass on that bd-850 - as mentioned by the guys who obviously have some experience in these matters - too hard to make it reliable long term, not so much the motor side of things, but the actual car and chassis itself. Moving on to more regular ideas now.

Thanks guys, will have to find my login details for RSLC again and go have a read. Sounds like there is a lot of free info around, I just haven't had the time to do as much research as I should have.

Haha, have been following fatcats thread quite closely actually, I quite like what he's done there. Yes, agree with the lack of weight comments with the GC8 chassis - thats the main reason I was thinking the brumby platform initially. I just wasn't aware of the other issues surrounding it.

Cheers everyone, will go forth and do more research! Once a plan has been put together, I shall put it past you all again. Once again, thanks for the lack of flaming!

Ben

[El_Freddo]

Thread dig, but there's a brumby dirt racer out there run by Settlement Creek Racing.  You can google for images or read the full build:

http://www.ausubaru....read.php?t=4919

An awesome build that's certainly had it's ups and downs.  There's lots of build hours not to mention dollars spent on this unit!

But it's food for though

Or is this idea dead in the water already?

Cheers

Bennie

[glenisanutter]

Auto barn warriewood owner...number plate BRUMB1 i think.     looks stock until you look harder 4pots 2pots custom manifold with turbs tucked behind passenger headlight and thats what i picked up on by parking next to it......... it can be done and would HAUL AZZ!