48 replies to this topic

[Cam.]

Fixed up the post. Writing this between jobs.

Boats are different. Use what you like in your car.

I'll keep using E10 because it works for me.

[BigWillieStyles]

Ive used it in my Pulsar, and goes exactly the same as regular fuel. Wish it was a cheaper than it is though. Brazil runs 87 percent of their cars on it. Its fine in a daily.

[TSG]

After what it did to our 4x4's tank and other tanks in the mechanics workshop that he showed me, I'll never use it again. I haven't seen a dead motor because of it though, just a sludgy tank and clogged fuel filters.

[Soop]

E10 has less energy per volume than 91-95ron fuel. Slightly. So if everything else remains the same, the engine may run a little leaner then usual, usually oxygen sensors detect this and adjust the fuel trims to suit, so after a while the is next to no difference. You will use more of it though.

The ethanol content its self, won't harm the engine. Most new vehicles (made within the last 10 to 15years) are alcohol resistant in that they use allot of teflon and silicon seals rather then rubber.

The best way to make the most use of any ethanol fuel is to dedicate and have the vehicle tuned specifically. I have had good success using E85 in LS based motors, yes you do use more of it but the knock resistance is great and performance enhancements are there to be had for sure.

After what it did to our 4x4's tank and other tanks in the mechanics workshop that he showed me, I'll never use it again. I haven't seen a dead motor because of it though, just a sludgy tank and clogged fuel filters.

That won't be caused simply by ethanol. I would hazard a guess, and say that it is more likely that the fuel has been tampered with or a bad bath has been delivered somewhere.

Ethanol is a perfectly safe fuel to use, provided the vehicle is setup to do so and the PCM tuned accordingly.

[TSG]

I don't doubt that it was a bad batch, but our mechanic hates the stuff. All the oldies in the area use it in their econoboxes and all of them come in 'ed as he put it. Also, I believe ethanol has a tendancy to trap water and it was rusting out the long range tanks. I see no point in using a fuel that burns faster and costs you more in the long run. We're talking about $2k of damage to our car in this case and we were lucky the motor didn't pack it in when the filter sucked the gunk through the line filter in the tank, the fuel filter stopped it but caused the car to cough at highway speed and die. Talk about a step in the wrong direction.

So yeah, only use it in a car that specifically says you can use it. Don't use it with one that 'would run on it' and has a steel tank! lol. I think my mate got a nice 250km out of a tank in his stock WRX tuned for 95 lol. He'll never use it again. Most of us don't know the technical aspects of the fuel, but when it adds up to dollars thats all that matters.

[Soop]

I don't doubt that it was a bad batch, but our mechanic hates the stuff. All the oldies in the area use it in their econoboxes and all of them come in 'ed as he put it. Also, I believe ethanol has a tendancy to trap water and it was rusting out the long range tanks. I see no point in using a fuel that burns faster and costs you more in the long run. We're talking about $2k of damage to our car in this case and we were lucky the motor didn't pack it in when the filter sucked the gunk through the line filter in the tank, the fuel filter stopped it but caused the car to cough at highway speed and die. Talk about a step in the wrong direction.

Ethanol doesn't coagulate. If anything it causes the exact opposite thing to occur. Out of interest, you don't use United fuels do you?

[TSG]

At that point it was Shell or BP. This was a build up over years of various fuels, from various strange locations (we travelled a bit with it) we didn't particularly use E10 in that 4x4. The mechanic was fairly certain the sludge was caused by the E10 being used at some point, but didn't test it. The shit economy my mate got with it was most likely United or one of those independants. It was incredible watching how fast it burnt off.

[Soop]

At that point it was Shell or BP. This was a build up over years of various fuels, from various strange locations (we travelled a bit with it) we didn't particularly use E10 in that 4x4. The shit economy my mate got with it was most likely United or one of those independants. It was incredible watching how fast it burnt off.

I've found united fuels to be poor at best. They have an E10 100ron mixture that has less knock resistance then BP98. So what does that tell you?

Honestly, I would suggest that your problems have stemmed from another source and that some mechanics can be rather unscrupulous when it comes to diagnosis.

[Xon]

Why would ethanol inherently cause sludge in your fuel tank, other than a shit batch of fuel? The only cause for that would be if it's eating something in the tank, in which case you're running it in a tank you shouldn't be. You can't blame the fuel for that.

[Adam]

I've always considered E10 in boxer engines to be evil. I've never put it in my suby, but I'm going to do a tank worth next full up. There's no point being sceptical if I don't have hard evidence. I'm not one to just believe something, I have to see for myself. I'll post up my results. Last tank was 98 and I did 420k's in heavy weekly traffic driving

For how many litres? Your comparisons will be useless if you just use the fuel gauge/fuel light.

just f.y.i, because I get 500+ running 18psi!

[TSG]

The theory was that the ethanol caused a layer of water on the bottom of the tank, which in turn rusted the bottom out and caused like a fine powder to fill the bottom of the tank, when I saw this, it was a smelly blackened sludge like substance and it was all clogged up around the fuel pump intake. But it may have also been a bad batch of fuel (sand in the tank), sabotage as it happened on the way back from a stay NSW and we know how great that state is it was suggested it may be an icing suger or something like that. We use ethanol blended fuels in my sisters micra

For the record I get ~550 out of my B4 from full (coming up the pipe back at me full) on BP ultimate. Depends on if I am a leadfoot or not, the weather, the angle of the sun etc. It's never really drained away unless I boost high everywhere. I use the trip meter after filling.

[Soop]

The theory was that the ethanol caused a layer of water on the bottom of the tank, which in turn rusted the bottom out and caused like a fine powder to fill the bottom of the tank, when I saw this, it was a smelly blackened sludge like substance and it was all clogged up around the fuel pump intake. But it may have also been a bad batch of fuel (sand in the tank), sabotage as it happened on the way back from NSW and we know how great that state is it was suggested it may even be an icing suger or something like that. We use ethanol blended fuels in my sisters micra

For the record I get between 500 and 600 out of my B4 from full. Depends on if I am a leadfoot or not. I use trip meter after filling.

10% Ethanol in a Petroleum solution isn't going to be hygroscopic enough to absorb the amount of water needed to cause corrosion on a scale needed to effect a car in a short amount of time. Especially considering the oxygen content would be almost non existent.

[jack_keaka]

Well I don't know what conditions you guys drive in but pretty much all I drive in is heavy gay traffic for 2 hours everyday. 420k's is on a good day too. The best I've ever got out of my tank is 650k's driving out to Condoblin. I THINK the RX tank is slightly smaller but ill check that on my mechanics handbook tonight.
Why can't I use the fuel gauge to make comparisons?
I'd only switch to E10 if I saw/felt significant improvements.... Which I doubt.

[Soop]

You would only notice a very very slight difference in the cost at the bowser. It's almost not worth the effort in my eyes.

The only realistic application for ethanol is E85 or E100 and purely for performance reasons.

[Adam]

Well I don't know what conditions you guys drive in but pretty much all I drive in is heavy gay traffic for 2 hours everyday. 420k's is on a good day too. The best I've ever got out of my tank is 650k's driving out to Condoblin. I THINK the RX tank is slightly smaller but ill check that on my mechanics handbook tonight.
Why can't I use the fuel gauge to make comparisons?
I'd only switch to E10 if I saw/felt significant improvements.... Which I doubt.

A more accurate way is to use litres/km ratio

[4rstr]

I'll keep using E10 because it works for me.

but Cam, isnt your obk tuned for e10 though? so it will run much more nicely than a factory tuned car using e10, which i believe is aimed at 95?

on a side note, my fuel economy went up to almost 12L/100km last week using shell 95, compared to mid 10s i usually get from shell 98 from the same servo. have never run the xt forester on e10, so cant comment.

i did run my na forester on e10, unleaded, 95 and 98 at various points. e10 gave worst economy, and the cost difference when comparing $/L and L/100km for the other 3 was much the same value.

[R-Y]

I used to run my old liberty on E10, never had a problem with it but i did find if i put 98 in it it performed slightly better.

So my conclusion from using it is, if you are using a 'better' fuel and go to E10 you'll feel it, but I dont think it would hurt the engine.

[SUBARU]

Multiple tanks of ethanol - Avg 10.6 lt per 100
Multiple tanks of 95 - Avg 10.2 lt per 100
Multiple tanks of 98 - Avg 9.2 lt per 100

After my recent experiment, the economy is getting better than the above 9.2 on 98. It's currently sitting on 8.8 lt per 100. All the same mix of running to work and slight hwy use.

Get as technical as you like, for me, those results speak for themselves.

[Soop]

Multiple tanks of ethanol - Avg 10.6 lt per 100
Multiple tanks of 95 - Avg 10.2 lt per 100
Multiple tanks of 98 - Avg 9.2 lt per 100

After my recent experiment, the economy is getting better than the above 9.2 on 98. It's currently sitting on 8.8 lt per 100. All the same mix of running to work and slight hwy use.

Get as technical as you like, for me, those results speak for themselves.

You will always use more E10 because alcohol as less energy per volume compared with petroleum. It's not an accurate way to gauge economy as you need to take into account the cents/litre equation as well.

That said, they don't sell E10 anywhere near cheap enough to warrant its existence.

[Cam.]

Use what you want in your car. I like E10 and the OBK loves it.

Stick with what you know, It doesn't hurt to try new things and see what happens though.