160 replies to this topic

[hawks_123]

The B4 does have problems with how the sequentials work. And should have been done better. But from my experience in a WRX (and feedback from b4 owners who've converted to a bigger single), the sequential system is much better for normal day to day driving. The B4 was never designed to be a hoons car (like a WRX), instead a car that can easy keep with traffic, and go faster than traffic if your in the mood. It doesn't take long to work out where you need the revs. I've always seen it as two cars for the price of one. Comfy grandpa car under 4000rpm , then a comfy grandpas WRX above 4500rpm.

[buzzda]

Here's a different POV http://www.webwombat...ts/1_08_sub.htm As stated above it comes down to individual preference but saying that its breathless from idle is ridiculous... ATM I get boost from bout 1800rpm (7-8psi) @ 2700 rpm I'm getting 17psi... it feels anything but "breathless"... and mine still needs a tune.

[Chadza]

I've always seen it as two cars for the price of one. Comfy grandpa car under 4000rpm , then a comfy grandpas WRX above 4500rpm.

Bingo, thats exactly how I feel about it too. If you want a wrx then buy a wrx, but if you want a comfy daily driver that has real low down 'urge' but will still push you into the seat when you give it some revs, then the B4 is the perfect car.

The proof for me has been when I have taken 2 separate mates for a drive in the car, 1 owns an Evo8 and the other a TT 300zx, both have previously owned commo v8's, and their first comment when I started driving was "it feels like it has a v8 in it." This was in terms of the low down torque and the fact it pulls from 1800rpm. With the primary turbo working low in the rev range too the B4 sounds very meaty where a wrx or evo is still trying to spin up its snail.

Its horses for courses really, just depends what your driving style is like and what sort of car you want to be in.

[RX25SE]

The B4 does have problems with how the sequentials work. And should have been done better.
But from my experience in a WRX (and feedback from b4 owners who've converted to a bigger single), the sequential system is much better for normal day to day driving. The B4 was never designed to be a hoons car (like a WRX), instead a car that can easy keep with traffic, and go faster than traffic if your in the mood. It doesn't take long to work out where you need the revs.
I've always seen it as two cars for the price of one. Comfy grandpa car under 4000rpm , then a comfy grandpas WRX above 4500rpm.

Bingo, thats exactly how I feel about it too. If you want a wrx then buy a wrx, but if you want a comfy daily driver that has real low down 'urge' but will still push you into the seat when you give it some revs, then the B4 is the perfect car.

The proof for me has been when I have taken 2 separate mates for a drive in the car, 1 owns an Evo8 and the other a TT 300zx, both have previously owned commo v8's, and their first comment when I started driving was "it feels like it has a v8 in it." This was in terms of the low down torque and the fact it pulls from 1800rpm. With the primary turbo working low in the rev range too the B4 sounds very meaty where a wrx or evo is still trying to spin up its snail.

Its horses for courses really, just depends what your driving style is like and what sort of car you want to be in.

You blokes are making me think long and hard about our GenIII RX and how I miss driving a V8.
If only the AUDM didn't have the blue bits of leather that the wife hates so much!

[Alex]

Playing Devil's advocate here, but let me add my 2c. Twins are good. (when they work!) Single is better Put cash aside, coz one day, when the twins fail, you'll have enough in your kitty for a single conversion.

[Merlin01]

Here's a different POV
http://www.webwombat...ts/1_08_sub.htm
As stated above it comes down to individual preference but saying that its breathless from idle is ridiculous...
ATM I get boost from bout 1800rpm (7-8psi) @ 2700 rpm I'm getting 17psi... it feels anything but "breathless"... and mine still needs a tune.

Thanks for that link Buzz - good article.
Has anyone gone through a motor?
What is their expected longevity if well looked after/maintained? I read somewhere they get tired up around the 200K mark. If I bought one with 80K on it, could I expect to keep it healthy for the next 8 years (15,000Km/Yr) without having to replace turbos/engine? -Relative to 95% normal grandpa driving and regular servicing/oil changes etc.
Are there common faults people have trouble with on a regular basis?

[Alex]

Yes. Lance's mum munched a motor on her B4. Frank (now Rhys') munched a motor. A few other lads also around the place. And what killed these motors? PING. It was a factory fault on these cars, and some people had their engines fixed under warranty, and many other didn't. You can drive any way you like, but its things that are beyond your control is what kills these motors (tune, poor fuel, ambient temperature) Problems: Sourcing specialist replacement parts (anything to do with the TT system specifically) Finding a mechanic that is willing to repair a TT (Trust me, I've been knocked back many times!) Poor accident damage repair Factory ECU Tune (causes ping/detonation) Typical Subaru Gearbox issues prominent with Turbo Five Speed boxes Suspension/Bushes if the car has been thrashed Air Flow Meters (tend to be more delicate than other Subaru models) That's all I can think of at the moment.

[Delete This Account]

My geabox and clutch have munched themselves before It may or may not of been my fault though Engines 110% though

[Merlin01]

And what killed these motors?
PING.
You can drive any way you like, but its things that are beyond your control is what kills these motors (tune, poor fuel, ambient temperature)

I can eliminate poor fuel, but can a retune/protune fix the PING problem?
When you say some had theirs fixed under warranty, what was fixed?
Ambient temp. - Is an Aussie summer a death warrant for this engine? Is there a temp. you would refuse to drive in?

[Delete This Account]

A tune up fixes everything

[buzzda]

Thanks for that link Buzz - good article.
Has anyone gone through a motor?
What is their expected longevity if well looked after/maintained? I read somewhere they get tired up around the 200K mark. If I bought one with 80K on it, could I expect to keep it healthy for the next 8 years (15,000Km/Yr) without having to replace turbos/engine? -Relative to 95% normal grandpa driving and regular servicing/oil changes etc.
Are there common faults people have trouble with on a regular basis?

What Alex said is all true, BUT, they aren't made of porcelin either I think if you serviced it reg and got it tuned (and don't thrash it on hot days) and find a good mechanic you could expect it to last to 200K without too many dramas.

Mines got 163K on the clock, I've had it 6 mths, when I had the ECV replaced (know of few others that have aswell), mech said he checked both turbo's and they seemed to be fine, doesn't use much oil maybe 1 - 1&1/2 lt per oil change (6000k) only other thing has been a sensor.

Apart from that all is good mechanically speaking.

[Alex]

I can eliminate poor fuel, but can a retune/protune fix the PING problem?
When you say some had theirs fixed under warranty, what was fixed?
Ambient temp. - Is an Aussie summer a death warrant for this engine? Is there a temp. you would refuse to drive in?

You can put in 98RON fuel in, but that doesn't mean you can eliminate bad fuel.

There are bad batches that go around every know and again, and servos have been known to put in nasty additives.

Melbourne was the last city hit, with an additive being added that royally fudged up many fuel systems.

Subarus have very delicate fuel delivery systems.


What was fixed? Destroyed motors. Due to damaged caused by the tune. Subaru were very shady with their factory "retunes", usually offering very little difference, and cars continued to ping.

Yes, the Australian weather plays havoc on these cars, especially hot dry summers. This is typically when ping is most prevalent in these engines.

Yeah, I know I'm painting a horrible picture for these cars. But its better that you know the facts before you go ahead an make such a purchase. Once these issues are solved, they make brilliant cars to own. You get the touring qualities of a high end Japanese car, with some serious pull, without that boy racer "look at me bro" type of appearance. They're quite stealthy, and when modded correctly, make for beautiful cars.

Usually a car with some form of ECUTEK or other aftermarket retune is usually the cars to go for. Listen carefully for any signs of knock. Enquire about the service history of the car, including rebuilds. A rebuild is not necessarily a bad thing, it most likely is a heck of a deal better than stock. I would enlist a mechanic for a proper inspection of the car, with emphasis on the motor and its history.

Also with B4's go for the later models (2003) or the Revision D or E. They typically don't suffer the issues that were prevalent in the Revision C cars. A giveaway sign is that the Rev C cars have the BBS mesh wheels, where the RevD and E had the five spoke design wheels.

Also you can tell properly by the chassis VIN number. Don't ask me, I don't know to the extent of that. One of the other lads here could fill you in.

[buzzda]

Mines a 2001 MY02 (built nov 01) and is rev D but has the BBS mesh wheels. I was told the 10th number in the VIN is the MY number for these

[Delete This Account]

Mines also a November 2001, we have twins Buzz

[buzzda]

Twin Twins... MMMMMMMMMMMM

[ams]

Mine's built around that time too.

[alexGT]

you can drive around in any temperature... just dont boost its head off!

[Merlin01]

Thanks gents...... Hypothetical: If you were to buy a 2003 MY03 STOCK B4 (varified VIN#) with 80K Kms on it, what would be the fist thing you would do to ensure it's mechanical survival? From what Alex suggests it sounds like an ECU tune is in order? (besides not boosting its head off)

[alexGT]

Thanks gents......
Hypothetical:
If you were to buy a 2003 MY03 STOCK B4 (varified VIN#) with 80K Kms on it, what would be the fist thing you would do to ensure it's mechanical survival?
From what Alex suggests it sounds like an ECU tune is in order? (besides not boosting its head off)

yes, but if your going to modify it you may aswell do exhaust at the same time. saves you going back for retunes.

also cooler upgrade will also help for safety too. very good idea to lower intake temps.

[Merlin01]

yes, but if your going to modify it you may aswell do exhaust at the same time. saves you going back for retunes.

Hmm, can you get exhaust upgrades to help the tune/performance without losing the current stealth value? I really don't want to make it any louder or bring any attention to it.

also cooler upgrade will also help for safety too. very good idea to lower intake temps.

When you say cooler upgrade, what do you mean exactly? CAI or more than that?