132 replies to this topic

[Wrx33j]

Im still wondering how Tristan is going to get AVLS and AVCS heads to fit an Ej25d and work.

He seems to know it all...

mate if you look waht we were talking bout you would know that tristan has a h6 with AVLS in his liberty

and he was say for me to see if i could pot AVLS heads on my ej25


so you got it all wrong mate

[Soop]

Firstly its PUT. Secondly you can't they dont exist for the EJ25d. Thirdly shut the f**k up you newb. The lot of you.

[Scuba-Roo]

haha and i just wanted to find out more details on an ej25 into a gen1

[CodeBurn3r]

haha

and i just wanted to find out more details on an ej25 into a gen1

shit so did i, 3 pages of nothing! i want to put my old EJ25D into my gen1 when i convert my RX cause the engine in my gen1 is almost at 300,000k and my gen2 will barely be at 200,000k when i eventually convert. it will also give it a lil bit more ooomph.

[Wrx33j]

haha

and i just wanted to find out more details on an ej25 into a gen1

like wat more do u need to know ?

[Dylan]

I am going to get out the cleaning stick when I get in to work tomorrow morning and poke all these posts down the sh!tter. I may or may not entertain the use of the warn function as well! Is it too much to ask for wanting some goddamn SOLID PROOF of these claims? Alex I was thinking today I quite liked the black bonnet of Tim's Gen1 - I'm a fan of the panda look , although I am a huge fan of the maroon look too (just quietly)

[Alex]

Alex I was thinking today I quite liked the black bonnet of Tim's Gen1 - I'm a fan of the panda look , although I am a huge fan of the maroon look too (just quietly)

im just a fan of cars that don't look like they're built from junkyard scrapheaps. (just quietly)

[Xon]

Tristan do you actually know what AVLS does? Why the f**k would you waste so much time and money trying to jerryrig an overly complicated, unneeded confusing system on to an engine that wasn't designed for it, using an ECU that has no idea how to use it, when you could just go out, buy a big f**k off lumpy set of cams, some half-reasonable engine management, and be done with it? Cams, maybe $1000. Engine management, maybe $2000. Decent exhaust, maybe $1500. $3500. EZ30r - $lots. EJ25d with AVLS - $morethanitsworthforhardlyanyadvantage.

[fatcat67]

my oppinion is that they make a difference, if you want good power and reasonable economy (i know mine isn't great but it's still not tuned properly, though one of my recent tanks was 12l/100km)

whether people want to listen to that (and i don't have any other data except for the fact that when my car was dynoed without avls it made 73awkw and with it it made 143awkw...) is up to them

he could probably still get the same performance of the avls heads (if not more) with lumpy cams. but then he wouldn't have the same low down economy that the avls offer. and as such, his car would be less streetable.

that's my oppinion, nothing more...

I find this quote very interesting.
So your saying that AVLS improved your power output 2 fold.
However, wouldn't a non AVLS NA 3.0l outperform a standard NA 2.5l non AVLS? There are proven dyno graphs of standard 2.5's pushing into the mid 80+ kwATW on standard ECU's.
So all you have proven is that you don't understand where your tuner was at that stage of tuning, what timing, fuel, etc, he had set in the ECU for that 73awkw. So why in God's name would that be considered an appropriate argument for anything except for our comedic pleasure.
Tristan, honestly, you do have a very valid point. AVLS is going to net a higher power figure/better drivability in most applications, but the sh1t you sprook trying to convince people is hillarious. DO SOME RESEARCH, PUT YOUR POINTS ACROSS WITH FACT, and with that you will convince people and gain respect.
To the OP, Luke(XON) has made a very valid point. Listen to him.
I've gone from a reasonable quick car down to a 2.5l NA and if I were going to spend money I wouldn't even consider a conversion to a 2.5l NA.
The law of diminishing returns apply in this case. Just replace it with what you have until you are ready to really advance in the performance arena.
IMHO 3l NA is not a performance upgrade for anything, only because it is very difficult/costly to start getting real power out of it. You need to be very committed to achieving your goals if you are chasing a 3.0l turbo conversion $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

[Blaeven]

I find this quote very interesting.
So your saying that AVLS improved your power output 2 fold.
However, wouldn't a non AVLS NA 3.0l outperform a standard NA 2.5l non AVLS? There are proven dyno graphs of standard 2.5's pushing into the mid 80+ kwATW on standard ECU's.
So all you have proven is that you don't understand where your tuner was at that stage of tuning, what timing, fuel, etc, he had set in the ECU for that 73awkw. So why in God's name would that be considered an appropriate argument for anything except for our comedic pleasure.
Tristan, honestly, you do have a very valid point. AVLS is going to net a higher power figure/better drivability in most applications, but the sh1t you sprook trying to convince people is hillarious. DO SOME RESEARCH, PUT YOUR POINTS ACROSS WITH FACT, and with that you will convince people and gain respect.

the lower power output from the low cams more shows that they are made for low down power and/or better economy. the tuner could have added all the timing he wanted and i still don't think he could have got any more peak power off the low cams (which doesn't bother me because that's why the avls is there)

sure you could just chuck some lumpy cams in it, but i was kinda getting the impression from tim that he wasn't too worried about money. with that in mind i don't think the suggestion of trying to retrofit (sure, i don't know if you can do it or not, but it's just a suggestion) the avls heads was a silly one. as he would probably get the best of both worlds, being economy and power...

anyone here would agree that anything is possible given enough money (tim could even buy a complete STi engine with avls and run it with higher compression pistons. again, i don't know if this would work or give him much more if any more power over his current setup. but i'm suggesting he look into it. not that he listen to me and just go and do it)

infact some of my exact quotes are:

if you really wanted the most out of the NA 2.5 you'd have to look into some new AVLS heads and some sort of programable ECU
that's my opinion anyway...

i don't even think the new NA 2.5s have avls...
i'm unsure what you'd have to do to get it...
i think some of the newer turbos have it...?

and i pretty much said nothing more than that when suprauc fired up at me:

Tristan, you're a dead set bell end. You have no f**k**g idea. AVLS heads? What the f*ck are you smoking dip shit?
They make F**k all difference on your nugget, they'll make even less on his.

was anything i said really stupid? i said to look into it and i even mentioned it probably wasn't worth doing because he'd always want more power than NA was going to give him.

so i don't know what the big friggin deal is...?

[Xon]

if you really wanted the most out of the NA 2.5 you'd have to look into some new AVLS heads and some sort of programable ECU

This is where my beef lies, because it's complete horse sh1t.
Granted, if he was a sissy girl that wears nanna-panties yes, he could look at AVLS, but if you're building an NA engine for power, you're not doing it to be economical. Hell, if you're building any engine for power, its not going to be economical. It's just something you should expect.
Building a half-decent NA engine is expensive enough without even considering AVLS, so why bother factoring it in?

[Blaeven]

This is where my beef lies, because it's complete horse sh1t.
Granted, if he was a sissy girl that wears nanna-panties yes, he could look at AVLS, but if you're building an NA engine for power, you're not doing it to be economical. Hell, if you're building any engine for power, its not going to be economical. It's just something you should expect.
Building a half-decent NA engine is expensive enough without even considering AVLS, so why bother factoring it in?

i didn't say if he wanted MAX POWAH Y0! i said if he wanted the most, more power and still retaining reasonable economy.

but you're right, if you wanted max power, you would get 3 parts of F**kall economy... and the car would idle like shit and make now power till after 6k rpm...

though i don't think he wants that.

besides it was just a suggestion. i dunno why everyone has such a beef with it.

[XXB4XX]

Well well well.. Rule of thumb.. ONLY work on an N/A if it's a V8 Subaru conversion? = ONLY turbo.. All you people are doing is spending 12k to get 10kw's, and making some mechanic's back pocket alot happier.. Go and get a Cannon Muffler and some Neon's and enjoy your P=plates.. when it's over, go and buy a completed turbo car.. A converted N/A will just get you less money on re-sale as no one will want to touch it cause it's not standard anymore, and the general perception of heavily modded car's is that they are alot more unreliable.. which is also very true! Tristan, I like what you did, I am impressed you did it, and you weren't all E-talk, but... Alot of money spent, that could have been put toward a Gen II GT, or a Gen III B4.. already turbo, already quick.. FACTORY!. Ta Brendan

[Dylan]

Alright.

Tim, Tristan, Everyone? - Read this.

and most importantly READ THIS.

kthxbye.

[Scuba-Roo]

Alright.

Tim, Tristan, Everyone? - Read this.

and most importantly READ THIS.

kthxbye.

i've read that first one before, pretty much went no where...


there was another one on a rsimpreza site (US) about a guy with 160-200BHP not sure if there was a dyno chart tho

[Eddie]

Hi There,I have been reading this thread and i am confused about AVLS.On the EZ30 they have AVCS (active valve control system)AND VVL (variable valve lift).These are 2 totally different systemsAVCS is active through the whole rev range as it relies on RPM,LOAD etc to determine where the cam timing will be.VVL starts to work at @2200 rpm and utilizes special 2 piece lifters and a totally different camshaft.It gets its signal from the crank sensor which then through an oil pressure switch (located at the rear of each head) allows oil pressure to be switched and activate the lifters by turning the 2 piece lifter into a 1 piece by locking it up.Avcs is on all the 4 cyl motors.Thought this might help.

[alexGT]

05 sti ej257 have avls yeah?
Im going to scream out "VTAKK KICKED IN YO!" at the next cruise..

p.s vote +1 for most contributing comment in this thread so far...

its on the heads not the block itself dude, so if yours was a b4 originally with a ej257 dropped in it wont have variable timing.

[Dylan]

Hi There,I have been reading this thread and i am confused about AVLS.On the EZ30 they have AVCS (active valve control system)AND VVL (variable valve lift).These are 2 totally different systemsAVCS is active through the whole rev range as it relies on RPM,LOAD etc to determine where the cam timing will be.VVL starts to work at @2200 rpm and utilizes special 2 piece lifters and a totally different camshaft.It gets its signal from the crank sensor which then through an oil pressure switch (located at the rear of each head) allows oil pressure to be switched and activate the lifters by turning the 2 piece lifter into a 1 piece by locking it up.Avcs is on all the 4 cyl motors.Thought this might help.

Great post eddie - thank you for clearing that up. I myself do not really know much about the technology in the newer engines so this was great to read.

[Blaeven]

avls = vvl... jsyk

[fatcat67]

its on the heads not the block itself dude, so if yours was a b4 originally with a ej257 dropped in it wont have variable timing.

Oh but it does my friend.
It has a long EJ257 with an Autronic running everything.