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#161 Blaeven

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 09:25 AM

Polishing is a waste of time. It doesn't make the air flow any better. If you need proof, look at a golf ball...


a golfball has dimples on it to create turbulance, this curves the air around the ball, reducing the gap of air (and as such; the drag) behind the ball.

having said that, i think that it's good to have some turbulance in the intake of a car engine, something to do with the vortex of air within a cylinder creating a better/more efficient explosion... *shrug*

and for those who haven't been paying attention, i will be getting tuned length extractors, a 2.5 inch exhaust and a CAI prior to the tune that i'm getting on the engine... i don't think it's unreasonable to expect 20kw from such mods, with a tune...

is it?

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#162 B4TT

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 09:50 AM

a golfball has dimples on it to create turbulance, this curves the air around the ball, reducing the gap of air (and as such; the drag) behind the ball.

having said that, i think that it's good to have some turbulance in the intake of a car engine, something to do with the vortex of air within a cylinder creating a better/more efficient explosion... *shrug*

and for those who haven't been paying attention, i will be getting tuned length extractors, a 2.5 inch exhaust and a CAI prior to the tune that i'm getting on the engine... i don't think it's unreasonable to expect 20kw from such mods, with a tune...

is it?


Apparently the turbulance helps mix the atomised fuel and air better ...... giving a more even/efficient explosion like you mentioned :D

 


#163 Soop

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 11:07 AM

You don't want turbulance. You want air speed. The mixing efficiency is done by the valve angle and port shapes ect. Turbulance slows down the air, slowing it down resticts the engines ability to breath. This is of massive importance when talking NA. Tristan, I think 220kw@w is on the cards for you. It might cost a bit, but i should be doable. Although I base the prediction on no bench mark what so ever.
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#164 Dylan

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 11:11 AM

If I were you Tristan, I'd aim / expect no more than 150kW ATW with all of these mods.

I know of a 3RB that managed that (Well, 149awkw) with a full custom exhaust, and an ECUTek tune.

Like Lance said, get the thing up and running first - then mod and aim for power. You'll just be setting yourself up to disappointment now if you're aiming for 20kW increases from a full exhaust system on a NA.

Tristan, I think 220kw@w is on the cards for you. It might cost a bit, but i should be doable. Although I base the prediction on no bench mark what so ever.


220KW?

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#165 Soop

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 11:11 AM

Yeah good point Dylan. What sort of Torque did that car make tho? 250nm@~3000rpm? P.s Your sig is f*ck off big too.
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#166 Dylan

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 11:14 AM

Not sure of Torque levels Pauly.

Dyno graph:

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#167 Blaeven

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 11:35 AM

You'll just be setting yourself up to disappointment now if you're aiming for 20kW increases from a full exhaust system on a NA.


that dyno chart you just posted says otherwise, exhaust and tune = 20kwatw gain...

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#168 Dylan

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 11:40 AM

That was with full exhaust, and tune :) (plus it was 18).

#169 Blaeven

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 11:52 AM

That was with full exhaust, and tune :) (plus it was 18).


i'm getting a full exhaust... everything...

and a tune... and a CAI...

i don't think a 20kw gain is unattainable...

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#170 Soop

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 11:57 AM

It should be attainable mate. Where it makes that power is another story. Can the engine rev hard enough to make use of it? Most of the advantage in what your doing will be in engine responce. Quicker throttle responce and more torque lower in the rev range.
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#171 Blaeven

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 12:02 PM

It should be attainable mate.
Where it makes that power is another story. Can the engine rev hard enough to make use of it?

Most of the advantage in what your doing will be in engine responce. Quicker throttle responce and more torque lower in the rev range.


tuned length headers and a longer intake pipe should move the power band up higher...

we'll see... i'll get dyno graphs from when it gets a tune... shouldn't i?

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#172 Soop

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 12:04 PM

You will. The engine is seriously restricted in standard form. Freeing it up will drop the torque lower. Even if it does rev quicker.
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#173 Xon

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 12:20 PM

Turbulance slows down the air, slowing it down resticts the engines ability to breath. This is of massive importance when talking NA.

Some turbulence is desirable to mix the fuel I believe Paul.

I would have gone to the kitchen, collected a brown bag, dropped my dacks, pinched off a loaf in said bag, done up dacks, stickytaped bag, placed bag in envelope, and mailed it right to your face for being such a tool.


It's ok, sometimes when we herp, we also derp.


#174 B4TT

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 12:29 PM

I thought that was the case, thats why the B4 has tumble twirl intake ports :D (Gayish name but its what Subaru Call them LOL)

 


#175 Soop

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 02:05 PM

They did that as an Emmisions thing i beleive. Which was to ensure a better air fuel mix and less unburnt fuel out the exhaust. So yes Luke, You'd be correct. But when talking straight up power, minimal turbulance is the key.
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#176 Blaeven

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 04:40 PM

wouldn't a more efficient combustion mean more power too?

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#177 Soop

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 04:45 PM

Yes it does, but the turbulance will eventually restrict the amount of power that is possible, as it is essentailly a restriction. The smoother the air flow going in the easier it is for the engine to rev. Super Bikes have 5 intake valves and 5 exhaust valves to increase the mix efficiency in the combustion chamber and keep the air flow strong. This is how 1000cc engines can make upwards of 170hp@w. Where as you're 2200cc engine struggles to make 100hp... I'm trying to think of an analogy that will make it easy to understand. So bare with me.
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#178 DRIVER

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 04:47 PM

wouldn't a more efficient combustion mean more power too?



yes and no. efficiant combustion less fuel being wasted thus more power, it is a bi more complicated but in simple form u would be correct in saying that
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#179 Blaeven

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 04:52 PM

Yes it does, but the turbulance will eventually restrict the amount of power that is possible, as it is essentailly a restriction.
The smoother the air flow going in the easier it is for the engine to rev. Super Bikes have 5 intake valves and 5 exhaust valves to increase the mix efficiency in the combustion chamber and keep the air flow strong.

This is how 1000cc engines can make upwards of 170hp@w. Where as you're 2200cc engine struggles to make 100hp...

I'm trying to think of an analogy that will make it easy to understand. So bare with me.


doesn't this make your previous point:

Easy enough to port heads while its in the car.
Polishing is a waste of time. It doesn't make the air flow any better. If you need proof, look at a golf ball...


kind of moot?

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#180 Soop

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 05:00 PM

Haha, It does to a certain extent. Engine dynamics (lol big words for Soop here.) aren't simple and straight forward in practise. You have to realise that you have to deal with what you've got. So what I said in my last post, is more theory than what you'll have to deal with in practice. Essentially, what you should look at doing. Based on what I beleive is correct (you do your own research of course), I think you'll be far better off in the hip pocket (Bang for buck's wise) if you settle for just porting the heads. If this is even relevant on the EZ motors. If the EZ30d is capable of flowing 250hp in standard form, save your time and effort and focus on more rellivant area's. With NA's 75% (I pulled that out my arse, so don't take it litterally) of your gains will be in the tuning. Because to get the most out of your engine you'll need to pretty picky about what you use and how you use it. Timing and Fuel is key. Get these right and you'll have a responive engine that will perform to its potential. If your dead set keen on making a powerful NA EZ30. You'd need to start with a EZ30r IMO. These have better heads standard (The EZ30D has a shared port AFAIK, the EZ30r does not), the EZ30r has AVCS, which will cost you more to tune, but will perform better. (Also harder to fit into a gen2, which equalls $$$) You may want to look at bumping up the compression ratio, IIRC they run 10.1:1 standard, you maybe able to run as much as 12.1:1 if you have it tuned to a tee, and ALWAY use the highes RON fuel possible. This will rule out any sort of forced induction how ever. (Stupid idea anyway really $$$) **You could could also look into blue printing and balancing the crank and block. This will really help if you want to rev it hard (8-8500rpm maybe?), This combined with forged rods and pistons (Look into Hyperutectic pistons, they're light, thus reducing the reciprocating mass, combined with cereamic coating this could be a good option.) you'll be in good stead to make a strong NA. If you do rebuild the engine, you may get the bottom end together for around $3000?? But if you do, do it. You'll be thank full you did. If you stick a rod out of the block it'll cost you alot more. After that the bolt on mods you've already mentioned will complement it well. I recomend sitting down and writing a list things you want to get out of the motor. Then, write a list of all the things you'll need to do to acheive it. Once you have that come here and confirm it with people on SC. We'll help you out as much as we can, but the onus is on you to make sure you have the facts correct. Only then can you really tell a builder what you want done.
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